Minerva Mouldings

[neiljustframes]

Is it just me or is the quality of this product going down the pan ? I know its made for a price but the last few weeks have seen more and more marks and dents under the protection wrapping ,which must have been sent out from the factory like that, colour changes in the foils , profiles not matching at mitres, even out of the same length, did phone Lion a few weeks ago but got no response, really thinking about taking out all samples from our range, because what price advantage it has is lost in buying replacements.

[TONY.W]

I'm sorry that you have had no reply from Lion head Office and it may have been that your complaint has just got lost.If you would like to give me a ring at Lion South I shall get someone to ring you as soon as possible.We always try to answer any complaints and queries as soon as possible so do ring and we will try and sort your problem out.
Tony

[Grahame Case]

Hi Neil,

Tony W got in before me,

Martin Harrold is a forum member here, I have given him a PM and hopefully he can come back and give you a reply. We've been customers with Lion since 1991 ish , Anytime we have had issues with moulding, (which is very rare) they have been top notch about getting FREE replacements out to us.

Often these things may not have been brought to the attention of Lion before, so it is always worth an email or one of the "we're all ears" cards, because they go direct to Martin or Lee Tandy

[Not your average framer]

I know its made for a price but the last few weeks have seen more and more marks and dents under the protection wrapping ,which must have been sent out from the factory like that

Quality is never an easy subject to handle in the medium of internet forums and it is often far too easy to say something which can be unfairly damaging or regreted at a later time. At best I would suggest that the words employed in presenting the the concerns in this paticular thread have been less than helpful to the interests of all concerned. May I respectfully advise members that words are chosen with extra care, if the subject is one that is likely to cause difficulties to those concerned.

It is not surprising to those who are trained in quality issues that these difficulties arise, nor is it my intention to imply anything negative concerning anyone. Some situations just have the ingredients to make things troublesome.

As an ex-design engineer with experience of quality issues, I can say that mass produced items would normally be subject to quality audits in accordance with internationally accepted methods and standards. Normally only those involved in such quality audits would have enough evidence to suggest anything remotely like "quality is going down the pan".

In general most marks and dents are likely to have been caused during transport.

Colour variations may due to mouldings from different production batches or different materials batches.

Unfortunately there is a popular conception that moulded and extruded products are all completely consistent and perfect. The marketing people working in many manufacturing industries like to use this argument to market their products and some marketing people even believe to be completely true.

The is no such thing as complete consistency in nature, due to the fact that the laws of nature lead to variety and variation, also some aspects of production processes are not always stable or consistent at all times. Wherever something is being produced, there are processes and wherever there are processes, there is an element of variability. For this reason quality audits are an everyday part of mass production activities.

Generally most people find it easy to understand that there may be variations in wood mouldings, but there is still scope for some degrees of variation in polymer mouldings, although most people assume this cannot happen. Welcome to the real world.

Be nice to your supplier and ask them to sort it out. They need us and we need them, when things go wrong they are a problem to suppliers and customers alike. Merry Christmas.

[neiljustframes]

Not your average framer

Thanks for the lecture, just to let you know after twenty years in this industry I think I know transport damage when I see it , this I believe is a quality issue simple as that and the posting came after much thought, if people don`t agree fine, but spare me the condescending attitude and a merry christmas to you

[Not your average framer]

neiljustframes,

I accept your critisism fully and appologise without reservation. My words were not intended to offend, but they have. I am sorry. You may have noticed that I have in the past tried to influence the way we handle disputes involving forum members and suppliers.

What you will not know is that I have even been prepared to act as an un-biased middleman between a supplier and another forum member, where the dispute about problems with Morso blades was causing a lot of difficulty to both. The I suggested to the member that if he requested that the thread was pulled, so that things could be resolved, I would help to defuse the situation and resolve the difficulties. This is true and can be easily confirmed.

The thread was pulled, nobody lost face and the matter was resolved to everyone's satisfaction. This may explain to you that I try to take a particular interest in such issues and try to infuence the way some issues are presented.

I always try to be helpful, in this case I was not and I'm not to big to say I was wrong. As you can see I have not done this very well. I hope you will accept my appology.

[Jonny2morsos]

I have not noticed any difference in the quality of the Minerva moulding I have used lately.

I have noticed variations in the core material from batch to batch and so long as I don't try and make frames from moulding from different batches I have not had any problems.

Only on one occassion have I had cause to complain about goods supplied by Lion and the matter was dealt with efficiently and with courtesy. The fault was beyond their control and they sent a replacement immediately and without question.

[Not your average framer]

It is not easy to respect both parties and not take either side, when the first line in the thread expresses such strong opinions against the supplier or product. A little kindness goes a long way in these matters.

[Nigel Nobody]

but spare me the condescending attitude and a merry christmas to you

I just read NYAF's response and found nothing condescending about it at all.

did phone Lion a few weeks ago but got no response,

I don't understand why you would leave a complaint for 'a few weeks' without inquiring about it's progress.
I guess we are lucky down here. I can get usually problems resolved immediately!

[Grahame Case]

Lion asked that the thread was removed. They did this because they were unable to establish who the customer was, or the exact nature of the complaint.

Lion have now been able to make contact with the customer. As they have done this, they feel that it is right and correct that the thread be re-posted.

For the record, Lion have asked that the following be added to the thread:

Although Minerva is excellent value, it isn’t ‘made to a price’ on the contrary, we pay a premium from the one of the more expensive manufacturers to get the best quality we can. This is perhaps best illustrated in the fact we pay extra to have each length individually shrink wrapped.
The manufacturer has rigorous quality control procedures, as do we. This isn’t to say that there won’t be occasional problems, it would be foolish to suggest otherwise. When we are alerted to a problem though, we take pride in trying to resolve it as quickly and amicably as we can.
In this particular instance, it appears there has been a misunderstanding because the customer doesn’t actually buy from us, he buys from one of our excellent trade re-sellers.
We hope that all customers know that if they have issues with quality or service, they can contact a member of the sales team or a director at any time.

[neiljustframes]

I would like to thank Lee Tandy from Lion for making contact today , our issues discussed and are now resolved , I sell a lot of Minerva Moulding, having nearly all the range on display and do not offer any other plastic ranges so I would be very reluctant to change and after talking to Lee ,I feel it was a Blip and its the end of the matter, more Minerva on its way on tomorrows delivery.

p.s. A sincere Merry Christmas to all forum members including not your average framer

[Not your average framer]

Thanks Neil.

It's good to know that that this matter has been resolved fully to your satisfaction. A thanks for your Christmas good wishes, may I again reciprecate and ideed wish you a merry Christmas and a happy & successful new year,

Mark

[reggie perrin]

Hi Grahame

Re my post yesterday 'am I going mad' I see where you were coming from.