CMC VERSUS KEENCUT GOLD

[topbrand]

I have an ultimate gold and an oval mount cutter and I currently cut approx 8-12 mounts a day some double etc. I cannot honestly see how I can justify the cost of a cmc. How long would it take to re-coup the cost and is it really faster. You still have to load the mountcard and set the computer. Any comments would be appreciated

[Graysalchemy]

They are with out question of a doubt a long term investment, unless you are doing contract work and producing thousands of mounts a day. However they will save you time and produce a better cut each time. Multiple apertures are also a lot easier. Basically you have to design the mount by putting in certain parameters into the software. On my machine a trucut this takes next to no time. Once it is designed it is just a case of putting in a sheet or offcut and pressing a button. The other advantage is that designs can be stored to re use again. All obviously will cut fancy designs and V grooves which you would struggle to do by hand, however I rarely use mine for that, (a great selling tool for the manufacturers though). Most cut thick mount board very easily, my Trucut cuts 3500 micron like a knife through butter.

I could not do without one now but they are a hefty investment (even though mine is second hand). I went over to a CMC because a lot of my photography customers wanted deep bevel mounts and multi aperture and had seen the fantastic mounts that Ultimat Frames had produced so I felt I had to follow suit to stay competitive.

Hope that helps

Alistair

[prospero]

If you invest in a CMC it's got to earn it's living. As AG says, they come into their own with production work. You ideally want it going all day every day. You can also do intricate designs involving curves and such that would take forever doing them by hand. Although it has to be said that a lot of the jaw-breaking CMC mounts you see have more to do with selling CMCs than everyday framing.

[Graysalchemy]

Here here for that last comment, however that they come into their own in framing competitions

[stcstc]

the other area they come into their own is quality and consistency

they will churn out mount with the same cut quality all day long

you will waste less boards, and spend no time thinking about mounts

i cut mounts for the day on my machine in the morning for the day, it take no time and no real though, just que them all up and off they go


i reckon if your doing 200 mounts a month its gonna save you a huge amount of time and money and be worth considering then

[Roboframer]

When I bought a CMC I didn't think about recovering its cost, I looked at it as an upgrade to my business, to make what I already do better and to allow me to do a lot of things I couldn't do or didn't want to - it was also a reward for years of hard work and I haven't looked back.

On Saturday a lady came in with 2 cross stitches and she wanted double arched mounts - (because that's what was what they were shown in on the kit's packaging) a total doddle on the CMC. Previous I'd have tried to talk her in to an arch with shoulders and even that would have been a PITA as they were so long they wouldn't even have fitted on my oval 6 and I'd have had to get the logan 3-step thing out. She's 'signed' them with a stitched butterfly and for a laugh I asked her if she'd like me to cut a small butterfly in one corner of the arch for a fiver extra each, she loved that and I loved the £10 for a max of 2 mins extra work.

[Nigel Nobody]

I've had my CMC for ten years now and it has been a great time saver for me. Like everyone else says, fancy cuts are not all that popular, although I sell lots of vee grooves and often use simple 'fancy' corners on jerseys. Multi layer, multi opening mats were rarely sold pre CMC.

Regular customers mats are saved so that next time it's just a few seconds to load the design, then cut the new mat/s, very quickly.

I have always considered my CMC as being the same as a part time employee, but without all the disadvantages.

[mikeysaling]

would be money down the drain for me - i don't have the space and don't need the facility the machine offers - however , i do have a fellow framer that does have one and i use his service for cutting ciggy card mounts etc when necessary (do my own autocad for this) .

[misterdiy]

I agree that it is a time saver. If you are doing the average number of mounts (say 200 per month) then that is at least 2 to 3 days work a month - meaning that you either work late into the night or automate. It's a bit like making cars. No one would be able to afford a car that is totally made by hand and economies of scale come with robotics. hence a CMC is just a piece of automation of the framing process. The computerised underpinner that puts all the pins in a corner in one go saves time. Time is money and puts off the day when you need to employ more people.

What wil be the next automated process? Something along the back and glass cutter?

Steve

[artyfarty]

What about the "middle way" - i.e a pneumatic cutter like the valiant Mat-pro i or the Smart cutter?
It's about a third of the cost of a cmc ( £3k), is much faster than the conventional cutter and gives a better cut (reputedly!)

[prospero]

Guess how many mounts I've cut this week?

[Gesso&Bole]

I use a CMC. Don't do a lot of 'fancy' mount-cutting, as customers don't often request it, and I personally hate the 'overkill by CMC' look of over complicated mounts.

As a business proposition, it is a no-brainer if you are doing enough mounts, or hoping to be doing enough mounts. As a 'one-man-band' jobbing framer, I would imagine that getting a CMC would be as useful as employing a part-time assistant, would require less workspace, be on time every morning, not require cigarette breaks, and cost less (you can rent a CMC for a few hundred pounds a month).

The other aspects that I have appreciated.

Consistency.
Requires less skill - anyone, new employee etc, can cut perfect mounts from day one
Multi apeture mounts - I used to hate doing these - now we do loads.
Thick board, with a perfect, effortless cut.

[Nigel Nobody]

Guess how many mounts I've cut this week?

27?
3?
123.62?

[Graysalchemy]

As a business proposition, it is a no-brainer if you are doing enough mounts, or hoping to be doing enough mounts. As a 'one-man-band' jobbing framer, I would imagine that getting a CMC would be as useful as employing a part-time assistant, would require less workspace, be on time every morning, not require cigarette breaks, and cost less (you can rent a CMC for a few hundred pounds a month).

I have invested very heavily in machinery so as not to employ anyone else. I used to run a business with 3 framers and have half the turnover. Machinery is a good investment and doesn't have to be so expensive if you buy second hand or refurbished machines wisely. The down side is that you become heavily reliant on them. As you may be aware I have been without a compressor all week so I have lost a weeks production and about £1000 lighter in the pocket. But it could be worse I could have had 6 members of staff twiddling their thumbs.

[prospero]

I haven't cut any mounts this week.

I put fillets on two mounts I cut last week, but no new ones.

[mikeysaling]

sorry to hear that peter - here is a glass for you to relax with

[markw]

I am not a high volume framer - But now on my 2nd cmc. So why do I need one - well I cut more than 200 mounts a month - but I used to do that easily with a Keencut. The thing is - its an extra employee who just gives great service - and on that basis very cheap. I can cut almost anything - anyshape - add text - emboss - cut fillets out of foamcore - make boxes - cove mounts - multimounts etc etc. I wouldnt be without it.

When a customer walks through my door with a job that needs a really complicated mount I know with confidence I can cut it - That allows me to be far more creative than the framer down the road who doesnt have one - competitive edge is well worth having.

[Roboframer]

is it really faster. You still have to load the mountcard and set the computer.

For a single mount with one aperture, if I've cut the board to size first, it is only slightly faster and only because I don't usually watch it being cut, while that's happening I'm cutting the glass or something; also because the board does not have to be turned for each cut. But if the CMC is cutting the aperture AND the outside, (which I'll only have it do if the offcuts would be no good for other mounts) then it's quite a bit faster.

Thing is though, that one aperture could be any shape at all and/or with a reverse bevel or no bevel (90 degree cut), and over/under cuts, regardless of the thickness of the board, are history.

Taking it up a notch, if you had to cut several mounts the same size, or even different sizes AND shapes from one board - maybe a 40x60 board - it's a dream, I've had my machine running on this sort of stuff when I'm not even in the same room because I've got paged to the shop to take an order, or something.

A CMC is an extremely specialised employee that you only have to pay once - but the problem a lot of framers have, and I had, is that it has to be paid (or committed to) up front and you don't pay employees, even if they are cleverer than you are in one area, 9-12 months salary in advance, that's a lot of money. But 9-12 months down the line, if it could talk and had feelings and was thinking about moving on, you would offer it a serious raise!

[Not your average framer]

If any machine is a licence to print money, it's gotta be a CMC. If I had the spare cash, I would buy one tomorrow!

[prospero]

I'd get a Range Rover.