low cost, high quality frame joining recommendations

[grahamg]

Hi all,

I'm a hobbyist framer, mainly framing my own artworks & photos. I'm very into hand-finished frames, and usually make them up in obeche, gesso them and gilded.

Tonight, my (frankly rubbish) logan joiner snapped, perhaps hastened by a tap with a hammer from myself to try to sort it out....

Can anyone recommend a very inexpensive, but very high quality way of joining frames with really good, tight mitre joins, without having to buy a cassese etc underpinner? I like largish mouldings (40-80mm +), but only make one-offs, so speed or lack of isn't a concern. I've seen a few hand joining machines (e.g. lion kimberly), but even then they are too expensive for my currently very limited budget!

Am I asking the impossible?

I live/work Aberdeen & Inverness, so if anyone has any equipment going spare / for sale / to use on a very infrequent basis, please do let me know.

Thanks all in advance,

Graham

[BaBaZa]

I noticed this on Framers Corner website: http://www.framerscorner.co.uk/uk/shop/ ... er-?cid=12 . Looks like good value, not tried it though

[Keadyart]

If you hand finish your frames,then nail holes shouldn't be too much of a problem to cover,..so you could use a corner vice and nails.
Other than that,its an underpinner or the joiners you have alrady mentioned.

all the best
Brian

[grahamg]

Thanks very much for the replies. Has anyone had any experience of using the M1 underpinner? It looks a bit wobbly in the video, and can it clamp well? A lot of the mouldings I use are quite deep and can be difficult to clamp effectively on the logan tool.

[prospero]

Hi Graham.

If you are joining wide-ish mouldings and not doing a huge volume, then a strap clamp is a handy gadget. You can glue all for corners at once and get a lot of pressure on. You can but them from framing suppliers, but if get the webbing 'tie-downs' from car roof-racks and such, these actually work a lot better as you can generally get more pressure on. You don't need the corner blocks as the webbing will mould itself around the moulding shape. Only prob is that it's hard to nail while the strap is on, but on big mouldings on smallish frames you don't really need to nail. Sometimes you can nail around the strap if the moulding is big enough.
You can get biscuit joiners that work well on 3"+ mouldings, but expect to pay around £150. They do make joining easier though as the joint is automatically aligned vertically with a little bit of 'jiggle' room horizontally. Combine these with a strap clamp and you have a very sound joint.

** Stanley used to do a great little strap clamp which you could cinch up using a spanner. I have several of them and have used them for years. When the webbing gets worn, it is easily replaced. Unfortunately they don't make them any more, but you can sometimes find them on E-Bay.

[grahamg]

Hi Prospero,

And there was me thinking for years that to get a decent joint, the only way to do it is with an underpinner! I will try the strap clamp method - will see what B&Q has in stock this lunchtime. If not nailing at all, what glue should I be using to be strong enough? At present, I use standard PVA.

[Roboframer]

How about a pocket hole jig - it'll come with a face clamp but you'll need a bigger one plus a right angle clamp. Bought mine from amazon (for making deep boxes) for about £65.

Click for photos

[mikeysaling]

before getting a cassese underpinner i used an 'easy' underpinner from lion (similar to logan pro framer page 12 latest lion) but was only about £70 - if you can find one s/h they are superb and very rigid . With this you MUST have a good corner clamp i used a kimberley clamp (i think it was about £50 from lion)

cannot find either of these in the latest lion catalogue No 47 - maybe ebay or someone on this forum has either or both for sale?

[framemaker]

Just to repeat what has been pretty much been said already, I think a strap clamp is a great way to go, we have just started using them after underpinning, with polyurethane glue to really put pressure on the joint while the glue sets. PU glue really needs to set under pressure to get the full benefit, alternative glues you could try are Titebond, Cascamite, or Gorilla Glue.

I think it is a bonus that you are making gilded frames as you can sand and prep the mitres before finishing. If you are looking for really strong, tight mitres then I think you have a number of options. You could use biscuits, pocket holes, corner vice with nails, or even screws on large profiles.
I think that with some practice, use any of these methods with a strap clamp, good glue, leave for 24 hours and you will get some strong corners.

Pocket hole video

[countrystudio]

I have recently bought a M4 underpinner.
Very happy with it giving flawless miters time after time.
Considered the M1 but felt the M4 represented better value for money.

[Not your average framer]

It might be worth sounding out the member who started this thread:

http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6822

It's a manual Euro underpinner, the spares situation ain't brilliant, but if you are not doing a lot of volume, it should last almost forever. He's probably looking to sell and the price might fit your requirements!

[sim.on]

Look at the simple underpinning head on page 15 of the Lion catalogue (you can view the pages of their catalogue online). It just fits onto a standard drill stand. You'd have to make up some spacers the same thickness as the drill stand base to keep the frame at 90 degrees to the wedges.

[Not your average framer]

simple underpinning head

I got started with one of these. They work well and are good for the money.

[Gesso&Bole]

These are great - I still use mine when I have something difficult to join.

Particularly good if you can find one very cheap on ebay. Search for Kimberley Underpinner

http://www.lionpic.co.uk/(S(e4gsiojyt3cjol45pok0h055))/product/KIMBERLEY-Hand-Underpinner,14726.aspx

[Roboframer]

That link is no good - try this one.

http://www.lionpic.co.uk/product/KIMBER ... 14726.aspx

[prospero]

Underpinners are great for smaller finished mouldings were speed is a factor. By smaller, I mean <50mm. The v-nails act as a clamp and also provide mechanical support after the glue has set up. No external holes to fill.
But there are situations were they aren't really man enough for the job. Say a 6'x4' frame in a 4" moulding. V-nails might be used to hold the joint in place, but further reinforcement is called for. This might be biscuits, pocket screws or steel 'L' plates. There is a point where putting more v-nails in will not make the joint stronger. Too many and you can even start to weaken it.
On plainwood frames where I can make good holes, I have been known to wack in a couple of 6" woodscrews or a dowel. Can't beat a bit of overengineering on heavy frames.
But wide mouldings on small sized frames can be done with glue only provided that they are firmly clamped. It's a question of the ratio between the glue area and the rail length.

One more method from days of yore: Spring Clamps. There is a proper name for them. but I can't remember what it is. At one time every picture framer had a set of them and I think they are still gettable.

[prospero]

Ahahhh!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ulmia-Frame-Clamp ... 2239wt_906

Ulmia is the brand.

There are some special pliers that go with. The idea is you force the springs open and apply them across the mitres. The do make a mark, but no worse than a nail hole.

http://theapprenticeandthejourneyman.co ... ch-clamps/

[prospero]

[grahamg]

Thanks all so much for your recommendations & insights. Really interesting to hear that actually a fancy underpinner isn't the be all & end all of frame making!

I've just ordered one of these http://www.clubframeco.com/store/produc ... ?pd_id=929 which I'm hoping will be good & I'll see how I get on and will investigate other types of cramps as well. I like the look of the pocket hole jig too for really tight joints.

Framemaker (awesome frames by the way), can you elaborate on sanding the mitre joints? I have this http://www.diyframing.com/store_viewItem.cfm?ItemID=86 guillotine which does give lovely smooth mitres.

Thanks all again, you really are a very helpful bunch!

[Roboframer]

will investigate other types of cramps as well!

avoid the stomach ones!