How long do you wait

[topbrand]

I have framed items including Ltd. Edition Mackenzie Thorpe prints (2) A wedding photo and other items that have been in the shop over 12 months, called them all and told them items are waiting etc. Can I sell the prints legally On my quote.estimate sheets it says items not collected after 90 days will be disposed of to cover costs but I wonder how I stand legally. The Thorpe print is worth £350 framing cost £70 Had a browser in the shop would like to buy it for £325 and was tempted to sell her it.

[framemaker]

I would be careful, I think you will have to give at least two notices in writing, with a final notice of where and when the goods will be sold. I have been going through this with two uncollected 18th Century paintings for ages, money owed to both my painting restorer and me.

general guidlines:

http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/corporat ... endocument

Apart from these 2 high value jobs, I must have half a dozen normal (under £100) framing jobs that I have had for years and years, and about a dozen that are between 6 and 12 months old. It would be nice to get these all collected, but it seems to be part of the business.

[Max Roberts]

The rule is, that the artwork still belongs to the customer, but once you've fullfilled all the legalities that Richard's posting mentioned, you can also take in to consideration charging for such things as storage. I've had cases though where I've ordered prints for customers, not taken deposits (like a fool!), framed the damn things and then the customer doesn't collect. Forget the polite legal letters in those cases and just sell the pictures if you can. By the way, if you're a guild member, we have a free legal helpline for such questions...just thought I'd get the plug in!

[prospero]

I've got one from 1987. It was a photo from a set - about 5-6 as I remember. I was about 4" short of moulding so I didn't have the last one ready when they came to collect. Like a fool I let them take the finished ones and said they could settle up when they collected the last one. I keep it as a reminder not to be so daft again.

I also have a painting of a falcon that I must have had 15 years+. I even lent it to a mate of mine to hang on his wall for a few years.... While he had it the folks came to collect. Got it back off my mate. it's still hanging on my wall.

Last year I had a good clearout and shoved all the abandoned framing jobs in the window at silly prices. Got a couple of hundred quid.

[Not your average framer]

Is there any obligation to take into account the possible market value of the customers artwork, or can you just sell the whole thing for whatever will cover the outstanding payment that you are owed by the customer?

I have threatened to sell one customers picture, for the value of the outstanding payment owed to me. The customer came and collected their work, but was very unpleasant about it. I'm not sure if I would do that again.

I also have two pictures which have been paid for in full, but not collected and I would like to be rid of those as well. I assume that I cannot sell those to dispose of them.

[markw]

One simple and effective solution - Take full payment up front.

[The Jolly Good Framer #1]

It makes me laugh when customers get shirty when they owe money.... who is the one in the wrong? Not me!

Anyway the bottom line is that the customer owes you money – and you want/need the money.
First of all I would do all I could to find them – even go and knock on their door and tell them they need to come and collect the frame and if they wont then threaten them with selling it to cover your costs.

If you don’t get your money you can then either sell the framed artwork and keep what you’re owed and give the rest to your customer (if there is any at all!) – problem solved.
Or
You could take them to the small claims court... which you will win and you get your money – problem solved.

But...
If the artwork has no monetary value then all you have is the value of the frame – and you’re stuffed.
Or
If you don’t know where the customer lives you cant take them to the small claims court - and you’re stuffed.

I find that reminding late collectors politely but regularly often gets results.
We keep tracks on how old a job is. When the job is ready we phone and let the customer know. If they’ve not been in after a month we phone again and then each week after that – but obviously very politely!
We will also ask if there is a reason why they have not collected – might be down to illness or the car has broken down and we do offer to deliver it then. But more than often than not its down to pure laziness at which point we then ask for a card payment over the phone.

Or as Mark says – take payment upfront, all or a %

[Roboframer]

You could take them to the small claims court... which you will win and you get your money – problem solved.

It would be nice if it was as easy as that - once I tried the small claims court, don't know if I'd do it again.

There's a fee, it was just under £100 when I tried - and a lot of form filling.

The customer is given the option of paying up or contesting and if they don't reply at all judgement is made against them, which means they'll have a CCJ and be credit blackilisted.

But what if they don't give one like my customer obviously didn't and don't reply?

I 'won' but I didn't get any money!

[Gesso&Bole]

Take full-payment up front, or at a minimum a 50% deposit.

And you will find the problem will virtually disappear. I say virtually, because there will still be the odd person who moves away, dies, or whatever - but if you have been paid for the job it is not so bad.

If I was owed money on pictures not collected, I think I would get in the car and go and deliver them. (obviously I would collect money before handing them over - if they wouldn't pay, then I guess I would inform them that I would sell them to recoup money owed). There would have to be enough money owed to make it worth the stress though.