Casesse CS810

[Ray]

Does anyone know anything about the Casesse CS810. I'm currently using a foot operated underpinner which I think is a Framers Corner model. It does the job but struggles with bevel shaped mouldings (you know what they say about 'bad workmen' - I know, I've heard). In the market for an underpinner - probably foot operated will do me but basically would like to get hold of something of quality.

[prospero]

Before you chuck your chequebook over the windmill, what how exactly is your current pinner struggling? There are some sneaky ways of coping with problematic mouldings.

[Ray]

With mouldings that bevel away from the rebate the mitre tends to push open slightly. There is no movement on the hammer that drops and holds the frame in place (sort of like a ball and socket) and on softer frames this can cause damage (already glued a cork plate to the end). I perhaps need to put a reverse pics of kitted moulding on top to give a square section for the hammer to clamp on to.

Also, it will not entertain 15mm wedges. The pin just slides right past them? Tried allsorts to no avail. Just have to settle for 7's and 10's doubled. I am relatively new to this game so have no other underpinners to compare with. I won't let anything that isn't perfect. I would hate to see anything on the wall looking crap made by me.

[silvercleave]

Hi Ray, got one of those and it did take a little while to learn the little tricks, instead of a piece of cork try a pad of dense polyurethane foam from a washing machine or tv packing this stopped all damage the red pad is a little on the hard side for shapes, the 15mm nails will go if you adjust the screw underneath to drop the slide. Have you the instruction book? I think you can obtain on line in pdf format.

If you cannot get it online give FC a ring, sure they will send one, or let me know and I'll dig it out for you

Ian

[prospero]

On some mouldings you can get the pressure pad holding at a point on the top that is offset from the wedge insertion point. There is a heck of a lot of force applied to drive in the wedge and in that case it can cause the joint to lift slightly before the wedge starts to penetrate. Result - gap on to surface.

The reverse bevel chevron trick works a treat. But often all you need are a selection on square chevrons covered in polyurethane/cork/whatever.
It's a bit of a pain having to place the chevron on the joint every time, but if it makes a good joint......
I routinely use a triangle of thickish wood faced with cork (a bit of floor tile) and wrapped in clingfilm (so it can be changed when gunged up with glue). It's the only way to get good joins with my venerable Euro which I bought new in 1983. The pad has quite hard, square edges and a miserable bit of felt glued to it. It also doesn't pivot, so without the extra gizmos I would have had a lot of dented frames by now.

[Gesso&Bole]

On the other hand . . . . . . I would say GET YOUR CHEQUE-BOOK OUT!

If you are serious about this business, invest in decent equipment. Using an old foot operated underpinner and a load of home-made adapters will add an extra 2 or 3 minutes on every frame you make, not to mention the limitations you will encounter (oak, very deep rebated frames, weird shapes etc) will make you inefficient, and frustrate you when you want to do the job right. Added up, over the reasonable life of a good quality machine you will save money too.

I know that Prospero can make amazing frames with antique equipment, but for mere mortals in the underpinning department like me, I strongly recommend getting the best machine you can afford.

[prospero]

Lol!!! If Marc Stacey ever drops in to my workshop, he would wet himself.


I swear by my old Euro. I say "Don't give me any 'kin grief you b*stard!!!"

[Graysalchemy]

I agree with Jim. If you are serious about this game then you need the tools to do it. Cutting and jointing a frame is fundemental to what we do. If you can't cut and joint without problems then you are stuffed. So I would always say buy the best equipment you can afford and if you have to up grade in time do so as it will pay of in the long term.

[prospero]

I agree with AG.

But there again.... You can spend a fortune on a machine with all the bells and whistles which has features that you won't necessarily take full advantage of. Like buying a Porshe to go down to Tesco's in.

The CS810 is a fab machine, but it's pneumatic. Is that a plus? And the more complex the machine, the more to maintain (and go wrong).

Just saying......

[Ray]

I've always believed in buying the best tools you can afford for any job. Serve you well in the long term, more cost effective and far more pleasant using them. For my needs I've decided not to go for a pneumatic underpinner, a manual one will serve my needs.

Casesse seem to be the ones to go for. There is a Pistorius VNM on eBay at the moment which looks a tidy, well made machine. I'm sure there are granted out there who can recommend Casesse machines which I would value. Anybody have experience of the Pistorius?
(can't add the link I'm on a phone). My concern would be spares.
Ray

[Ricky]

I use the Pistorius VNM its a great machine & I've never had any problems with it.
Its a good Industry standard machine that very rarely go wrong.
The one one ebay is virtualy mint condition, although a tad expensive compared
to what i paid for mine, these underpinners come up quite often on Ebay &
are always worth a look I've seen them go for as little as £50.00

[Not your average framer]

My first proper underpinner was a Cassesse CS-79 and it worked really well. I now have a secondhand CS-88 which also works really well. I don't think that you will go too far wrong with any of the manual Cassesse machines and this includes any secondhand ones in reasonable condition.

Good secondhand equipment comes up on a fairly regular basis if you are looking and usually there will be those on this forum who can advise you about anything you may be thinking of buying. Just ask, someone will know.

[Graysalchemy]

Pneumatic does have its advantages, mainly they are faster less problems with hard woods or poor knotty wood and generally produces a tighter joint. However there is more to go wrong generally more expensive to fix and are reliant on the compressor not breaking down. My compressor was broken for 3 days so I had no saw no underpinner and no cmc and a big bill to fix. My underpinner is a cassese 3099 which cost me 5k and I have spent probably 1500 having it fixed over the last 5 years. Having said that it is the best machine for what I do and well worth the costs. I think though having that machine in a bespoke set up would be a luxury.

Alistair

[Ray]

I've just bought a Cassese CS79 in very good condition for £275. Think I've done OK with this and will test it out fully this weekend. Certainly looks and seems to operate a hell of a lot better than the one I've got. One question might be, as Ive got a lot of spare 7mm, 10mm and 15mm wedges which at first glance look identical to the Cassese, can the cartridges be re-filled with lines of other wedges. I need to check them more closely tomorrow.

The other bonus is that my wife will no longer complain banging her head on the current underpinner fixed to a post next to the washing machine (garage operations always have their drawbacks).

One piece of advice for the rest of you...........ruin a white wash only once and you never need load the thing ever again!