suppliers

[CalicoFraming]

Anyone suggest good suppliers for a newby who needs to place small orders?

thanks!
Calico

[Jonny2morsos]

Try Tawnycraft in Northampton Tel 01604 792782

[Jonny2morsos]

Or Hinton Wholesale Supplies in Cambridge 01223 411715

[silvercleave]

Hi Calico

I'm not a large buyer but why not try the main ones such as Simons, Lion or Wesex, all charge delivery on small quantity but you can just add to the final price of the job or even absorb it and make a smaller margin.

Have found they all want your business large or small.

See how many companies or reps get in touch, they all look on the forum.

Ian

[Tudor Rose]

Hi Calico

Why limit yourself to certain suppliers just because you think the "bigger boys" won't want to deal with you? Choose a few good suppliers and get in touch with them, I can't see anyone turning business down in this economic climate. You might have to pay carriage on your order but if you can build that into your price then it shouldn't be a problem. Most companies have a very low minimum order value and if you can use the internet to order then quite often it is a lower value for carriage paid.

Happy shopping!

[CalicoFraming]

thanks for all the replies

I currently use Wessex - I really like the guys there and overall I'm really happy with them. Only problem is having to wait for a weekly delivery slot and a minimum two week turnaround on chop orders.

Lion have minimum orders which are still offputting at this stage of the game. I'm also vaguely aware of Simons, Ashworths, Nielsen and Arqadia. Arqadia get great press but I'm not in a position to bulk buy lenghts of moulding, although I would like to use them for chop.

To be honest, I'd have thought that any of the usual suspects would be keen to build a relationship with a start up framing business in the anticipation of larger orders down the line, but there doesn't seem to be much of that about.

Just wondered if there were other obvious outfits that I wasn't aware of.

Thanks again
Calico

[Jonny2morsos]

Just thought of another supplier you could try:

http://www.renaissancemouldings.com/

They are in Waltham Abbey so probably deliver to Hertfordshire.

It is OK going to Lion, Simons, Arqadia etc for your mouldings but you still have to get other items particularly glass and backboard.

[Graysalchemy]

Carriage is always going to be a problem, I still end up putting in small orders for rush jobs and end up paying next day carraige.

My advice always is to limit you range of mouldings and mountboard to one supplier and don't offer a massive range keep it sensible. That way what ever is left over from one job has a chance of being reused in a few weeks. Now wholesalers are obviously good for this but so are Arqadia and simons. You will get to know your range and what goes with what and you will tend to sell that.

If you start offering a little from one supplier and a few from another before you know it you will have stock coming out of your ears, be charged carriage on everything and wondering where all you cash has gone.

I started off using a wholesaler then progressed onto using main suppliers but made the mistake of letting all the reps into my shop. So I now only buy mainly from arqadia some contract stuff from Simons and plastics from mainline (which is usually only box quantities for contract work). When I was in retail I had a selection of about 20 mountboards which served me well.

Alistair

[CalicoFraming]

That sounds totally sensible.

I'm very short on space, and what with the endless frustration of getting my Morso to yield the perfect mitre, I'm increasingly relying on chop for mouldings. Seems to make sense for me, and I use Wessex Fine Art for this and they're great, but my problem is there's a minimum 2 WEEK turnaround because their logistics don't hook up so well and then if something about the order isn't right, you end up waiting another 2 weeks! But as I say, really nice people and very helpful, which is really important to me. I know at the end of the day it's a business decision about who you trade with but personally, within reason, I'd always chose to deal with friendly, flexible people who have some sense of 'doing the right thing' by me above and beyond terms and conditions. So Wessex I really like, just wish their van came more often!

Thanks for the other names - will look them up.

Calico

[Bagel Framer]

Wessex and DJ Simons for me.

Wessex have a min order charge of £15.00, but you can order just two sticks of moulding. Their glass supply is fabulous too. Check deliveries with Wessex as I'm sure they can deliver any day as opposed to a specific day (on the specific day it's their own van).

DJ Simons have no minimum order as such, but you have to order two sticks of mouldings. They deliver next day of within 48 hours. they offer free samples too.

I used to use Lion religously and would drive up to Hayes to get the moulding I needed for the job as and when. I've stopped doing that now as it's putting miles on my car (a 60 mile round trip). I don't agree with their minimum order charge of £50.00 as I'm an occasional framer so can never hit £50.00 - ok I can get stock but I can do that with Wessex and DJ S, so i don't show Lion's range anymore.

[Tudor Rose]

If you are happy with Wessex and want to use chop then Frintons (part of Wessex) now do their whole range in chop and that would be delivered to you by courier, so no waiting for a van. Arqadia chop service is also excellent - again carriage to pay but you just build it into the price you charge. At least with chop there is no wastage.

As has already been said, choose a few suppliers and build a relationship with them.

[CalicoFraming]

Bagel Framer, I'm totally with you on Lion. It's 60 miles away for me too and as for delivery, well currently I want to get a couple of Frametek spacers, but I don't want 100' of them!

News to me about Wessex delivering on other days, I shall have to quiz them about that!

Think I'm going to check out Rennaisance as they're only 20 miles away - might be worth the trip to save on carriage and ordering too much stock.

Thanks everyone!
Calico

[Not your average framer]

I think that you will find it an advantage to deal with more than one supplier and they all have their strengths and weaknesses, so you will find different advantages in dealing which different suppliers.

When I first started, my first supplier was Simons and I mainly used them for the first couple of years, but slowly expanded my range of suppliers as time went on.

A lot will depend upon your own emphasis, but I would guess that just about everyone uses both Simons and Arqadia. It is almost essential to deal with at least one supplier that does weekly van deliveries.

Carriage charges are a fact of life and you will have to allow for this in your prices.

[AJP]

Hello again Calico!

I find that a combination of Lion plus a local supplier is working really well for me.

I build up a group of orders to make sure I hit the £50 minimum moulding order. That means that I can offer a really wide range of mouldings without actually stocking them. And it means I can stock up on other things I need each time I place an order. Lion deliver any work day, and their next day delivery is not at all costly if you are spreading it over a clutch of orders (and if you use Google Map to work out the petrol price of driving it yourself, not to mention the lost work hours).

Lion put me onto a local glass supplier who delivered smaller quantities.

Lion's minimum mountboard orders were a problem. Then I found, through ColourMount's website, my local supplier of mountboard. For me it is a great outfit in Bristol. (I offer full CM range, which looks professional.) I head up there each time I'm stocking up for a clutch of orders, and while I am there I we chew the fat on the state of the market - diabolical, by the way! - and I get some tips and inspiration.

I can do it this way because I try to make sure I don't have time pressure on jobs. I always ask customers if there is a date they need it by and if it's within x weeks or days I say it won't be possible. It's hard turning away work but it's harder trying to meet a deadline when it's all going wrong ...

Let me know what you work out. I'm always interested!

[CalicoFraming]

Thanks AJP, nice to hear from you again.

I'm trying to make the transition from my day job to framing full time so haven't had the time I'd have liked to research suppliers etc. but it's next on my list.

I hear what you're saying about Lion. I bought all my start up kit from them - nearly £3k worth of stuff! - but they've shown zero interest in me and my business since then and personally I don't find them very friendly. I know that I should be more pragmatic about this - it's business, not personal - but I value my customers and they know it, and when I'm the customer I want to feel the same. I want my suppliers to be interested in me and my business and to do the right thing be me. Which is why I deal with Wessex in preference to Lion. I can't help feeling in a business sense I'm cutting my nose of to spite my face in this regard, but it'll be a sad day indeed when the quality of relationship between supplier and customer ceases to be a consideration.

Will keep you updated - if someone's providing a good service I think everyone should be told about it.

Best,
Calico

[DEEPJOY]

A number of suppliers have their fair share of 'sales prevention officers' and sometimes personalities can make or break a trading relationship.

I hear your frustration, as a salesman myself, I try hard to keep speaking to people in hope they will eventually come around and buy from me. I have noticed however, a number of the suppliers are always out for the big deal and seem to find it hard to nurture the smaller buyer in hopes that their future spend will have all been worth it.

I will not mention any names, but a company I quite like, really did one on me at the Spring Fair. I was in conversation with a representative from this particular trade supplier and I new I was struggling to keep his attention, I wondered perhaps he needs to visit the loo? But he then looked me in the eyes and said, - "is this going to take long because I need to speak to that couple over there?" I caved in and let him go, but not before considering a forearm smash or a headbutt to the top of his nose!! Don't worry I considered only.

In comparison the top boy at Lion came over and gave me more than the time of day. Thank you for that.

When you are small fry it is difficult to get the support and we have to except, the suppliers will always look after the people who are spending the money with them.

[markw]

Calico. Lion keep an awful lot of framers very happy - they provide a good service and are committed to helping and educating framers. They have provided me with fantastic back up when needed - getting spare parts for out of action machinery to me overnight - as well as well informed and very helpful time from their staff. If, when you are full time and some of that machinery fails they will be at the end of the phone to help. I think you need to look a bit harder at what they offer before criticising them on this forum.

[Not your average framer]

Putting my moderators hat on, I feel it is neccessary to give some words of caution here.

Have you seen rule number one? It says "Be nice". This also applies to suppliers, particularly those who are active members of this forum, such the supplier in this instance.

If you must say negative things about a supplier, the moderators will want to know that you have already taken up the issue with the supplier before bringing it to the forum and that you have given that supplier every reasonable opportunity and a reasonable amount of time to resolve that issue. The forum should not be your first resort, but your last resort in such matters.

Vague negative remarks such as in this case are very hard to answer and allow good reputations to be questioned, without any opportunity for such remarks to be challenged. Politians do this all the time, trying to blacken opponents reputations. Nothing negative seems to have been said about any products, or services from this supplier, so what's the problem?

The supplier in question is one of the larger of the U.K. suppliers and is very pro-active in the industry putting on events for framers with leading speakers and demonstrators at their own expense for the benefit of us all. I know from my own involvement mediating between this particular supplier and another framer, just how far this supplier will go in terms of effort and expense to solve a problem. This supplier is also regularly responds to discussions on this forum as is often recommended by other members of the forum.

[Nickz1971]

We are very lucky as we have Arquadia a mile away but we also use Mainline, Simons, and Lions. It sure is good to build a relationship with more than one supplier. We get great service from all of them. All but one have very good and easy websites to use as well which makes things a lot easier as well.

[CalicoFraming]

I feel a bit sad that my comments about Lion have been taken in this way. I only mentioned them because someone else had and in any case was just trying to make a general point about how important I feel it is for suppliers to develop relationships with those of us starting out in the industry. Lion were great when I made my initial large (it seemed large to me) order - Tony Walker brought it all to my place in the back of his car, threw in a couple of freebies and even spent some time giving me some tips on my Morso, which he hadn't even supplied. And I'm really grateful for that. Since then I haven't had much to do with Lion because my orders are so small, it just seems to make more sense to deal with other suppliers who cater for that. On the odd occasion when I've called Lion they've been businesslike. My point was rather that they haven't been proactive in fostering their relationship with me which is a shame because I'd like them to. In other words, contrary to the popular belief, I'd actually welcome the odd sales call or request from a rep to drop by and see how it's going. This ISN'T particular to Lion! It's a GENERAL point! I hope the clarifies things and that no offence has been caused.
thanks,
Calico