A Shame & Disgrace

SquareFrames · Post by **SquareFrames** » Wed 20 Oct, 2004 12:45 pm

Hi Folks!

Just thought I'd share this with you all and let you know what some 'so called' picture framers are still doing in this day and age, and they are tending to get away with it, until the job needs reframing, or having the back and glass replaced.

Yesterday a customer brought in a tapestry to be re-glazed and a new MDF back put on, as it had unfortunately got broken in a recent move. To mine and especially her horror when I took it apart, the tapestry had been stretched (not even squared) around 2mm hardboard, and glued at the edges. Also the corners had been cut, some even had an attempt to mitre them, obviously to make it easier to glue down and lie flat. Then the tapestry had been placed inside a frame, (close framed with no gap between fabric and glass) panel pinned, as ther was no room for framers points, and simply taped up using cheap and nasty masking tape. Not even an attempt to put another back on to cover the tapestry's edges.

Thankfully, I was given the job of completely reframing the tapestry and within an hour she had brought me down another 9 fairly large tapestries and 4 small cross-stitch to reframe, all of which were cut / mitred, glued, framed and taped in excatly the same way.

Dont get me wrong, like any of us would be, I am thankful for this lady's business, but it should never have come to this. Obviously some picture framers do not know how to frame tapestries and cross-stitch in the correct manner, or is it a fact that they see a quick buck to be made and just frame adhoc, and to hell with the consequences?

Had this framer never heard of some basics, such as lacing, donor fabrics, spacers, multiple mounts, and most importantly, creating the air gap between the front of the fabric and the back of the glass. Surely to god they at least must have known of what can happen to fabric when placed directly against glass? It maddens me to see how much pride the rest of us take in our work and our work, just be to be cheapened by the likes of this.

Sorry about the rant, but I thought I'd share this.

Steven
GCF Advanced (Textiles)

JFeig · Post by **JFeig** » Wed 20 Oct, 2004 1:37 pm

This is nothing new in the States or anywhere else, I am sad to say.

This is why standards like FACTS (http://www/artfacts.org),organizations like PPFA and The Guild are so important.

To quote John Ruskin (1819 - 1900)

"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price has beenforgotten"

Post by **John** » Wed 20 Oct, 2004 2:15 pm

Virtually all of our tapestries are stretched over 2mm MDF, held in place with carpet tape and line of PVA on the back.

However, we are happy to lace for those customers who are willing to pay the price, and explain how for the ones who are prepared to do it for themselves.

markw · Post by **markw** » Wed 20 Oct, 2004 4:21 pm

I had a needlepoint in for reframing a couple of weeks ago - It was one of the first textiles i had done - many many years ago - i had made about every error possible - but it stiil looked good in its frame - the customer was happy. I admit i removed the tape from the textile and laced it onto a new board - for my piece of mind - the customer wanted a mount so it went back into a new frame spaced, laced and ready for a few more years. I am not sure of the damage thats caused by direct contact with glass - other than the crushing of fibres - i would always advise against it - but John is correct when he says that the customer pays for what he gets - I build the cost of a spacer and lacing into my estimate - but customers often want a cheaper option - like John i ask them if they wish to lace the work themselves - most end up paying me to do it.

JFeig · Post by **JFeig** » Wed 20 Oct, 2004 4:30 pm

Even if the client would request such a method , I would not subject my clients textile (tapistry, needlepoint, embrodery) to such a fate.

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Wed 20 Oct, 2004 7:09 pm

As John(Admin) says.. What is wrong with carpet tape and animal/rabbit glue for delicate cross stitches.

Yes we too have recovered a lot of this type of work from our local competition.

In their defence (??? I think ???) . A few of them are (being polite now) getting on their well past retirement years and that is the way they were taught. In their opinion "It works so why change it and use all this new fangled stuff" or even "lacing !!! my arthritic fingers cannot hold a scre driver let alone a needle".

What really puzzles and frustrates me is the W.I and their stitchers Guild. About 25% of them who do the competitions, really know their stuff and insist on the correct procedures and materials. Sad that the remaining 75% use the white masking tape and no spacers or mounts, because that is what they have been told to use or have even read in the magazines.

I am really trying to make inroads into these people, obviously not for financial purposes (tee hee), but to go and talk to them and educate them, after all they do spend hours on their labour of love and it could be very quickly ruined with wrong techniques.

SquareFrames · Post by **SquareFrames** » Wed 20 Oct, 2004 7:12 pm

Hi,

I must admit that many years ago, and I mean many years ago, I dry mounted a cross-stitch onto a piece of self adhesive board for a cheaper alternative, but now all my work involves tapestries and cross-stitch being laced. Like Markw, my lacing is built into my pricing programme, and I dont recommend that customers do it themselves unless they are using the correct thread and know what they are doing, both my wife and I are more than happy to lace as many tapestries and other fabric art as come in, its part and parcel of the job! All my pieces are now framed with conservation mountboard as the norm, no need to up the price anymore for the use of this board.

The main problems with fabric against the glass are build up of moisture and condensation, all eat into and ruin the artwork, and may alos cause colours to run, etc., yes it crushes the fibres, but they can be revived, the other main problem is UV light, but unless customers are willing to pay for Truvue glass, there is nothing I can do about that, as yet! (Working on that one)
One thing I would suggest by lacing the work is this fact: always thinking ahead and of how customers sometimes treat their artwork, and little mistakes / accidents that cannot be avoided, etc., if for any reason, the tapestry falls off a wall and the frame / glass breaks, initially the lacing is strong enough to hold the work in place, but also weak enough to break, to avoid irreperable damage to the work by ripping through the substrate it has been stitched onto. I treat it like conservation hinging an original watercolour / limited edition print, the hinges are strong enough to hold the work in place, but the weakest point in case of an accident and stops the paper being torn and damaged.

To have the correct methods to hand on framing fabric art, buy 'Framing Fabric Art', published by Fine Art Trade Guild, it isnt more than a tenner, (if its that) a tenner worth spending for yours and your clients peace of mind.

Courses on framing fabric art are available: (028) 9269 3807

Steven

markw · Post by **markw** » Thu 21 Oct, 2004 12:22 am

Square frames - you mention the correct thread - what do you use? I have experimented with all sorts of strong thread over the years and have settled upon a very strong thread sold by the local saddlers for leatherwork - its very strong - doesnt knot easily when you are lacing - doesnt slip when knotted. I use a kneedle with a slightly blunted edge - if you are going through a cotton backing you dont want to do more than push between the fabric. - Pricing textiles is very difficult - i have a banded system and look very carefully at the textile to assess its squareness - the quality of the backing material etc. worst scenario is a lozenge shape longstitch on a very cheap waxed cotton backing - you just know that to get the neccesary squareness you will tear the backing - the customer hasnt paid much for the kit - and despite putting hours of work into completing the project they dont want to spend much on the framing - "do i need glass"? is the first question. Unlike J Fieg i will do a basic framing job if thats what the customer wants - i will explain the pitfalls - its a fact of life that many of the customers who bring me textiles are pensioners - i try and do the best quality job for the money they can afford -

I personally dont like textiles going straight into the frame - they always look better with a mount - exception being when they have intricate border patterns. I find that the spacing material Lion supply - its the plastic sleeve stuff that fits around the edge of the glass - works very well. Steven's recomendation of the FATG book Framing Fabric art is well worth purchasing - some very clever approaches to handling difficult materials.
What do you tell the customer who wants non reflective glass? - if you put an adequate space it looks horrible - i recomend denglass or similar and once hooked customers generally come back for it time and again - but it takes some persuasion if you have already loaded the job with the cost of lacing etc.

SquareFrames · Post by **SquareFrames** » Thu 21 Oct, 2004 7:43 am

Hi Markw

The thread I use is a 100% cotton Mercerised (whatever that means), its a tough thread, but like I say, strong enough to hold, but weak enough to be the first thing to break incase of an accident. Although I live in the sunny climate of Northern Ireland, (god I wish this country was turned upside down) but anyhoo.....I buy all, when I say I, I really mean my wife buys all our threads, wadding etc., in Wigan market. The balls are 400 yards long and made in Bradford by V&A Spinning Company (Cullingworth) Ltd, BD8 8JL, and brand named Empress Fine Quality Crochet Cotton. We have a few different shades of white, off white, cream, etc. They are approx. (wait for it, this is the killer) £1 or just over.

Mark, the thread you are using is far too strong and would not be recommended, the needles we use are also not blunted, we use sharp pointed ones that dont damage the canvas in any way, even from the back, we just gently push the warp and weft apart. Make a wee visit to your local market or wool shop, during your tea break, or even contact the company direct, Failing that have a wee trip to Wigan Market, or there is a closed in market in Coventry that does exactly the same things. If I can find the name and phoine number of the two lovely ladies in Wigan market, I will send it to you, they will post it, if your stuck. (But with my filing system, i.e. wallet, dont hold your breath)

Talk soon,

Steven

PS
This thread has been used on tapestry, cross-stitch, silks, papryus, medals, football shirts, etc. and all without damage to the item in any way shape or form.

markw · Post by **markw** » Thu 21 Oct, 2004 7:59 am

Steven
whats a tea break and where's Wigan - its up North isnt it? Some usefull tips - thank you. I do tend to use finer threads on lighter textiles - but see your point re the destruction point of threads should be sooner than the textile. I have to admit that one of the reasons i use blunt needles is to stop jabbing them into my flesh.

JFeig · Post by **JFeig** » Thu 21 Oct, 2004 12:37 pm

We have our share of "fixed income" customers as well. Our basic method of mounting fabric is to make a sandwitch of 4 ply and foam centered board and either pin it through the sides or staple from either the back or front (depending if there is a mount or not). We use stainless steel pins and staples! No glue or tape residue. The 4 ply faces the back of the textile.

Another method - with a mount - is to cut a similar sized 4 ply board and pressure fit the textile through the opening. The cut out portion of the board acts as a cork to hold the textile in place and fairly secure. A very easy and fast method. Again no glue or tape.

One of my clients happens to be a textile conservator at a local museum. I showed her a method she had not used or seen before. It was the use of a pneumatic staple gun to insert the SS staples.

Our other methods include the lace method and sewing onto a another piece of fabric that has been stretched over either bars or several 4 ply boards. It is like sewing onto a pillow.

markw · Post by **markw** » Thu 21 Oct, 2004 1:21 pm

Textiles can be a real challenge - and i suppose thats why i like framing them - you do have to have quite a repetoire of methods - the "cork fit" method works wonderfully on silk and fine fabrics. I dont use staples - tpins can work well under some conditions - but lacing does seem to be the most versatile allowing for varying tension to be applied to work that doesnt always have a fixed tension.. I have just completed a number of frames for signed polo shirts - i used a micro tack gun - the customer dropped one of the frames - the microtack fixings broke - without any damage to the shirts - the frame was badly damaged but repairable - few tacks in the shirt and it was back in place.
Signed shirts do raise a problem - they have almost invariably been crumpled up - they often come in dirty and creased - little can be done about the dirt - but do you iron out the creases - many of the modern football shirts are made of very high tech material - i wouldnt approach any with a hot iron - signatures in ink could run if steamed - my strategy is to point out the problems to my customer and tell him to iron the shirt if he wants it crumple free - or accept that i will fltten the shirt as much as possible but that i wont steam or hot iron it.

SquareFrames · Post by **SquareFrames** » Sat 23 Oct, 2004 7:27 pm

Hi Mark,

the micrtack gun, was it any good? I have heard of a few framers road testing it and results not been to favourable. They found it would not go through some fabrics, kept falling out, etc.

Let me know what you think.

steven

SquareFrames · Post by **SquareFrames** » Sat 23 Oct, 2004 7:44 pm

Hi Again Mark,

We should stop meeting like this!

Signed shirts, baseball caps, gloves, boots, etc all cause a huge problem for us, as the customer wants always to see the signature, what else can we do, but frame it as they want it? The worse one I ever had was a signed Arsenal shirt. The team had used the front but all to one side, they must have been trying to conserve space, but added to that, the type of shirt they signed and wore that particular season, had a 6 inch approx. panel added at the sides which made it nay on impossible to get folded correctly, secret stitching was done to make this disappear without looking like a huge lump. That year they also has longer backs to the shirt which made it difficult to balance inside the frame when the whole shirt was wanted to be seen, again secret stitching sorted that one out.

As for ironing. not our job, but we ask. we use the old brown paper with a coolish iron, just to take the worst of the wrinkles, folds out, and save on iron shine (Back to the good old days of pressing Police uniforms in training college, when the world was in black and white)

I recently framed a rugby shirt, signed by 2 off Ulster's greatest ever stars, Paddy john and Tyrone Howe. The person had it signed, let the child wear it while he played mini rugby for 2 more years, washed it...goodness knows how many times before I got it onto the workbench, and guess what? the signatures, (one being over 3 years old), were as good as the day they were put on. So not all signatures runwhen dampened, wet, washed, mucked up, washed again, played in, etc...

Here's one for you. I got a set of French Military badges and medals in the other day for mounting and box framing. The chap asked me if I would like to polish the medals, I said 'NO' and gave him my reasons, what would you have done, or anyone else?

Answers on a postcard!

Steven

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Sun 24 Oct, 2004 2:25 pm

Hi Steven, You asked about the Microtak gun.
We have used both this gun and an Avery Dennison Tagging gun as sold by STAPLES. with Polyprop tag fixings from 5mm up to 25mm long.

Both very good, although you do have to pierce the back mount first if using the Microtak gun, otherwise the needle will bend and break.
The Avery has a stronger needle, but also larger in diameter so makes a larger hole.

If the tags are too long then they are very easily laced on the back of the mount and taped up.

I certainly wouldnt be without either of these guns in the workshop.

markw · Post by **markw** » Tue 26 Oct, 2004 9:15 am

This thread

has been fairly thought provoking. I happened to be in a gallery the other day that specialsed in sporting memorobilia, lots of signed football shirts - good frames - very elaborate mounts - the shirts stretched and captured on foamcore with lots of pin heads sticking out of the edge - stretching board exposed at neck - infact little effort had been made to hide the construction work. the lack of finish applied to the textile element seemed out of place with a well executed frame and mount. The gallery obviously specialised in this form of framing - there were several shirt cases all bearing the same array of pins sticking out from the edge of the shirts. I endeavour to always hide my fixing, but you could claim that the pins are a reversible method of fixing - that the customer can see that the shirt is pinned - an honest open approach to the fact that its a shirt pinned to a board? I have a shirt case in for repair at the moment - it too has been stretched on a board but glued at the back - estheticly it looks better but its fundementaly wrong and will prove to be very difficult to repair. i know that the answer is to create a form that doesnt show the construction but can see that in a market where the value can often be diminished by the way the object is handled the visible method of attachment could prove to be an advantage.

JFeig · Post by **JFeig** » Tue 26 Oct, 2004 12:37 pm

One think to remember with the heavy duty tacking gun "attachers" is that in most cases these are much stronger that the fabric being attached or mounted. In the case of jaring of the frame package the art will tear before the fabric. This is in direct opposition to the theory of doing "no harm" to works of art or memorbilia.

The speciality "attachers" from Fletcher Terry have a very low tensile strength for a reason.

markw · Post by **markw** » Tue 26 Oct, 2004 12:56 pm

in my recent experience of a customer dropping a frame the "tags" broke leaving the item completly unharmed - if used with care they are very good. The very small tags are easly broken - they have fairly narrow T heads that pull out. I would imagine you could get situations where the textile was compramised by the tags strength - but if you were using the nearest equvilent method - stitching - even using the frailest of threads would result in a far stronger attachment as the stitch would be a closed fixing where as the tag is an open fixing.

Dermot · Post by **Dermot** » Wed 27 Oct, 2004 1:31 pm

From the Fletcher web site....Jim (James) Miller

http://www.startframing.com/educational ... ler_05.php

Post by **John** » Wed 27 Oct, 2004 2:18 pm

Hi Dermot

Thanks for the link to this comprehensive and well writen article by Jim (James) Miller about needlework framing. (Could this be our own Jim (Wallbuddies) Miller?)

Good to see you back on the forum, thought you had emigrated to The States or something!