Mamual Mat Cutter

[strokebloke]

I suspect that this one may get billed as my dopiest question so far, but ......
here goes:
Has anyone tried to mount a 48" mat cutter such as an Ultimat upright on an easel framework, so that it is operated like an Excaliber?
I'm looking at ways & means to save space and utilise the relatively small amount of room that I have available.
I recently saw one of these wall mounted cutters (is it called an Excaliber?) which cuts mat and glass. And wondered if a similar principle could be applied to a conventional mat cutter.

If I get no response I will assume that it was a dopier question than even I thought it might be

Thanks
Jack

[silvercleave]

err.......................would you mount it vertical or horizontal???

Ian

[strokebloke]

I have envisaged mounting it vertically, as I am sure that to mount it horizontally would stress the aluminium base extrusions beyond what they were designed for. I confess, that until you asked the question, the thought of mounting horizontally had not even entered my head.

[IFGL]

I think it would cause you cutting problems. When the cutter is flat on the desk, you pull the cutting head towards you in a nice smooth motion, I think this would be hard to achive mounting it vertically

Then how would you stop the mat bord from slipping, you can't put pressure on the handle as this bows the base and couses a bad cut.

Please post and let us know if it works.

[prospero]

Not a dopey question by any means. I fact a very good idea. An amazing piece of lateral thinking. Tick VG.

Don't do it though.

As IFGL points out, you wouldn't be able to get a nice smooth cutting action. (Unless you lay on your back or were a gibbon)

[David McCormack]

Just a thought Jack, to save on space you could store your Ultimat on the wall and then bring it down to use it, then back on the wall when you've finished. Maybe

[strokebloke]

I've just done a provisional set-up. With a simple 'A' frame which sites the bottom edge of the 48" bed at 24" off the floor.
I have a Fletcher 2100 cutter. And all that I've needed to do is remove the two sprung bar lifters from each end of the bar.
As it is practically vertical - inclined at no more than 3º and the base board is supported by the 'A' frame there appears to be no visible stress on the machine.
I've just cut 3 mats and put a different sized window in each of them, one with 5mm deeper bottom edge than the others, without any problem at all.
And one big advantage is that for relatively small mats (up to 30") you can cut them sitting down on a chair.
It is a different technique. And for me, being new to framing that's not a problem because everything is pretty well new anyway. For someone who has a well established technique, developed over many years, it may seem cumbersome. I used to lean on the bar with my left forearm to adjust the top stop and cut bevels, two handed. I can still do the same thing but instead of leaning onto the bar I now have to press horizontally with my forearm.
Even for me it will take some practice. But the results so far have mitigated me toward persevering for a week rather than sticking it straight back on the bench. And it releases half a roomful of space because if I stick with it I will be able to rotate my bench through 90º and have a lot more room to work in.
The only real downside that I can see so far is that to adjust the bottom stop, it's necessary to support the cutter block with your left hand as you tighten the bottom stop screw in position, because the cutter block now settles at the bottom of the traverse bar.

I will post my progress as the week goes on

[strokebloke]

Oh dear, sorry Peter, I've been a bit adventurous.

David, the stroke makes lifting heavy articles, on a regular basis, pretty well impossible.
Some days are better than others. However, some days I just walk round in circles

[Nearlygotitright]

Hello Strokebloke
I have a 48" C & H Advantage Pro that lives on a narrow custom built bench, ( translation - old kitchen table sawn in half and re-topped with a piece of 18 mm mdf to give me the length/width). It usually lives butted up to my main bench but can be moved easily if it is in the way. I need proximity to the bench because in addition to cutting mounts I use it for cutting all my glass.

[strokebloke]

Prototype 2.jpg

I'm not certain of sizes for images, so may get this wrong but .....
A couple of shots of the proto so far

[Jonny2morsos]

The Keencut Ultimat Gold can be wall mounted and Lion stock the wall mounting kit (Cat No. 3640). I almost bought one at one time but then we bought a CMC.

[strokebloke]

That's interesting John.
It means that someone has thought it sufficiently worthwhile to do the R&D and the manufacture of the fittings.
It would be interesting to know what the sales figure percentages are
I must admit, that so far, sitting on a chair, cutting small mats & windows, it appears as comfortable as standing, leaning over a bench.
The cutter head obviously tends to fall to the bottom of its rail. So it's really just a matter of controlling it's progress to achieve a smooth, uniform cut; which appears surprisingly easy.

[strokebloke]

Hello Strokebloke
I have a 48" C & H Advantage Pro that lives .......

That is at least as large as the Fletcher 2100, isn't it?
Whilst I have no desire to be non-conformist, I have noted that framers per se are a very imaginative and versatile breed, who make things work for themselves and their working environment. I suspect it comes from many, on here, originating from other industries/spheres of work.
(presumably your wife hasn't noticed yet that the dining table has gone missing )

[JohnMcafee]

Pre-CMC, our straight mouncutter was wall-mounted.

If you are going to be cutting any large multi-aperture mounts, Jack, you may find it useful to bodge together a 'left hand arm extension'.

[strokebloke]

Thank you John. I could easily make a left-hand arm extension. I have the existing right hand one to copy.
And the machine can be placed against any vertical wall.
Large, multiple-aperture mounts are something I have not tried at all yet.
I've done one or two 'exercise' small to medium sized ones but not with the cutter vertical.
I've just cut a medium mount with 'V' grooves and it went as well as it did with the cutter flat on a bench.
I am finding it surprisingly easy to use.
The bar seems to require no pressure on it now that the spring lifters have been removed.
Cutting board to size with the straight cutter is very easy.
Cutting window apertures is, for me being new, easier vertically, than with the cutter lying flat on a bench.
I no longer need arms like a gibbon to reach large apertures.
And I can see the calibration much more easily too.
The slip mat drops into the gap between the end of the R/H measuring arm and the L/H aperture stop. So it doesn't move much when the bar is lifted to turn the mat round.

So far, I'm delighted with the result.

[Nearlygotitright]

(presumably your wife hasn't noticed yet that the dining table has gone missing )

I do all the cooking so I just serve it up in front of the TV. She did say that the kitchen seemed to have got larger!?

[mikeysaling]

Mat cutter - I bought the keencut mainly because it can be dismantled rapidly - the squareing arm i mean . So i can use the dining room table and quickly store it when HID needs the table . Strokebloke - love your use of space and like the vertical mount , but the keencut would have been better !! (never mind water under as they say) you seem to have found a good solution with your fletcher. Let us know how it is as an ongoing thing. When 'store' the keencut i have several thick rubber bands to hold the cutter in place and store left side to the ground to avoid damaging the easy lift thing.

[strokebloke]

The squaring arm is the one major disadvantage to the 2100, IMO. It's screwed and bolted firmly in place. No easy removal.
However, once set up square, you can forget it, so that's the bonus.
My 'cup half full thought' is that I wonder how well the Ultimat and Valiani clip-on connections will last before they begin to show signs of wear and it becomes more difficult to gain the accuracy required.
I will occasionally post progress; with both the positive and negative aspects of the vertical set-up.

I got the 2100 because I rebuilt and serviced it, including making new parts for it, for my framing materials supplier.
He was going to sell it on when I had finished it.
Given what I had spent on it (which he would have to reimburse me for) and that I had restored some other machinery for him, he gave me the 2100 in lieu of payment. So instead of spending £4-500 on an Ultimat Gold, which is what I intended, I got the 2100 for less that £100.
And I knew that it was as good as new.

PS: I've just noted: What I have is a Manual Mat Cutter, not a Mamual one

[mikeysaling]

sounds a good enough reason to me !! As a matter of interest what needed doing on the Fletcher ? and dya know how old it was when you fixed it . The squaring arm and the mat guide on the keencut seem very rigid and durable to me - no play whatsoever and i regularly have to take it from the DR table !

[strokebloke]

Mikey, I have no idea how old the 2100 was when I took it from Clive to work on it; but it had certainly had a busy life.
It wasn't visibly abused, but ......

1 the cutter block bearings were worn - so I replaced them
2 the cutter block was stripped, cleaned, adjusted and rebuilt - several pressure washers were replaced
3 I turned two knurled, threaded knobs for the measuring arms, which were missing.
4 there was no bottom or top stop. So I sourced the two stops, but they were both incomplete so I had to make knurled, threaded adjustment stops and lock-rings for them.
5 the top stop measuring rail was also missing so I made a new measuring rail and milled it out, to take a small rule which was very similar to the original fixed rule for the bottom stop.
6 I made a new mat plate, and a locator pin for the beveled margin fence.
7 cleaned and trued the clamp rail which was slightly twisted.

That was it: the reason I bought the incomplete top & bottom stops was because I sourced them from Mark at Underpinner Spares for £70 incl. P&P, which was less than half what they would have cost anywhere else. And Mark got them to me without any delay.

I can't envisage Keencut or Valiani producing a 'clip-on' system that is not sufficiently robust - just when I see things like that, I wonder