Let me introduce myself.

[cubic framer]

Greetings Cubic Framer.

I must admit that I do tend to shy away from 3D framing. It's not that I dislike it, it's more because people are generally unwilling to pay a realistic price for the work involved, which in some cases is considerable.
A lady came in a while back with a spray of flowers made of icing. Very delicate. It was off her ruby wedding cake and all contructed with thin wires. I knew that it would take hours to make it secure enough to hang on the wall. I told her in all honesty that I would have to charge £200+. just for the labour and the flowers would probably all disintegrate in a few years anyway.

Let me ask you this: What is the weirdest thing you have ever been asked to frame?

There were so many weird things, and to case an item of taxidery was not unusual, however as a presentation piece, a cock pheasant had a ducks head grafted on. The amalgamated name of this monstrosity was a 'Dusant Phuck' and was described as end of species.

The taxidermist who did the work was extremely skilled and it looked superb, I invented the text without any prompting, it may have since been copied.(though probably a rather obvious invention)

Now to business, one of the reason that I am setting up some of my equipement is to do just this job.

A lady who is a very skilled sugar icing worker, has given several commissions over the years. After I closed down, she got in touch about a piece that she had done for her third sons wedding, as far as I know all the previous items going back 7 years are surviving.

In her work the icing is very hard, she accepts that it may not last forever, but cased it is going to have a longer life than not. Framers sometimes shoulder too great a burden of conservation.

Given the ability to make a cover there a 2 options of presentation, horizontal or verticle.(Obvious, but the framing industry is yet to embrace the concept of horizontal framing.)

A transparent cover set in a picture frame becomes a verticle 2 piece case and the 2nd piece is very simple back to which this type of work is relatively easy to fix and leads to less aggessive methods of securing the back.

This leads to second option, horizontal framing,
Can be cheaper.
More suitable to softer icings.
Pose the question when will the client want to display, usually when friends are about, so the suitability as a table decoration may be an option.

[cubic framer]

CF. Interesting you should mention a stuffed peacock as I actually stuffed a peacock once. I use to dabble in taxidermy.

I think the point Robo is making is, when does a frame become a display cabinet. I suppose the two things fulfill the same objective.

If you have stuffed a peacock with a full tail then you will appreciate the possible size of a case, I will dwell no further.

You have bought out the Nitty Gritty of the debate and is on the use of the word cabinet where the framers understanding of three dimensional framing can hang or fall.

When discussing the option of cases with framers I have usually found that the word 'cabinet' comes up as an indicator of interest being switched off, very often the word is pronounced 'Cabinette'.

Is a glass fronted box any more a cabinet than a glass sided case? It is in the work of the Victorian taxidermists, that there is a glaring example of the developement of 3D framing.

The provincial craftsmen, whose work was generally inferior to the work of the recognised master craftsmen favoured glazed boxes and as the quality of worked increased the amount of glass increased.(There is a risky generalisation within but as general observation it does transfer to other crafts such as ships modelling.)

It is within the product of the Victorian high street that it is possible to see the evidence of 3D framing practised by cabinet makers, and yet many of these businesses were also Picture framers.

[cubic framer]

Cubic,
I would like to add my welcome to you, too?
Your vast knowledge will be an asset to this forum, I'm sure!


IMHO 'framing' is a very broad term and can apply to virtually anything that is contained in any sort of presentation device.
Many times it is just not possible to 'frame' something to hang on a wall because we have this stuff called 'gravity'. We cannot do anything about 'gravity' so we just have to work with it instead of against it, especially with items such as the 'cake layer' mentioned. That's unless someone has an 'anti-gravity' machine for sale!

I went to a Vivian Kistler 'Double Sided Frames' seminar at the Sydney trade show last weekend and she used her famous expression 'I'm a framer, not a magician' quote when referring to 'gravity'.

We all need to etch this quote into our minds so that we don't tell customers that we can do something that is impossible, then discover when it's too late that it is impossible!

Thank you for you welcome, along with the welcome from the others, I am trying to cover many of the points raised and at the same time as answer individual posts, I hope you will look through the other post because many of the points raised are interlinked.

As with the cake, I mentioned the Robo's clock may well be in a dome.

In the early days of my case making business I travelled the Antique fairs. Skeleton clocks with broken domes used to be a good source of revenue, although I had connections in the trade (then not now). A replacement was often not available and may take many years of searching to find.

The offer of a 'rescue cover' often solved the short term need to allow continued use and often was fitted into the insurance budget.

However, I used to dismiss many of the domed displays as cheap decor ware, only worth the salvage of the dome. It was not till I recognised that this is definetly a form of 3D framing that I started to realise the scope of Horizontal framing.

It is probably the scale of use of glass domes in the Victorian/Edwardian era that has masked the use of covers as a legitimate form of framing in the 20th century, when the introduction of suitable adhesives could have made it possible.

[cubic framer]

Wow CF, you've certainly made it easy for people to contact you.

Welcome to the forum.

In the flurry of the welcome, I did not recognise the implications of your message, the barrage of buttons at the bottom of my posts are meaningless mainly because I have not got a clue what they are all about.

My apologies if I have done something wrong.

[cubic framer]

Hi,

interested to hear what type of 3d items you have framed

I find the same problem as prospero, generally customers do not what to pay the cost of framing a 3d item

Hi beth,

The use of a cover in the framing 3D objects was my speciality, however I used quite a few boxing techniques. It should be possible to explore some of these, to find low cost input methods that can yield a reasonable reward for effort.

No point in doing work for nothing but on the other side it does not do to turn away a dollar if it is worth making.

The moulding manufacturers do expect to make quite a lot out of your efforts and being a newcomer to the site I do not know how much of this has been covered by previous discussion.

If there is some money in the pot and the client cannot afford the options, I usually say, 'Well lets' do it my way'. Invariably worked out provided I read the signals right.

I can hear the moulding manufacturer's teeth gritting if we start to discuss some of these methods.

[Moglet]

.... a cock pheasant had a ducks head grafted on. The amalgamated name of this monstrosity was a 'Dusant Phuck' and was described as end of species.

I like your sense of humour, CF!

I think the term "horizontal framing" is a good one: in my opinion (shorthand is "IMO"!) it's very apt for the type of work you are discussing.

No problem with the buttons. If the computer is really getting you down, try this ---->

[cubic framer]

From your antique show example, you've answered my first concern, namely "will the cake last?" I'm ok on how to construct a plinth, but my inexperience means that I don't know enough about the materials and techniques required to construct the glass cover, or the relevant suppliers. I'd very much welcome any recommendations you could make.

Edited to add:

I echo your sentiment that with the right skills and materials, and with willing, we can much better meet our customers' wishes!

My own methods of constructing a glass cover were self taught and refined over a long and arduous period of practice.

A large part of my reason for being on this site is to find out if it is worth my effort to pass on these skills.

About a year ago Pete Bingham published a method of constructing a case in the Picture Business, I wrote in and expressed my concerns that it was unsafe.

I do not believe that there is a quick and simple explanation on 'how', over the years I have taught staff and a few others.

I cannot recommend a supplier, because I do not think that there is a supplier that understands the concept from the needs of the framing Industry.

The Framing Supply Industry is almost positively opposed to the idea.

To step in at this stage and make recommendations before I make myself aware of the thinking of framers in general may be premature, however a supply of 3mm glass is necessary and Pete Bingham got it right by using High modular Silicone.

If I get the connect buttons right I may be able to help in an 'off-air' way so to speak

[Moglet]

I would certainly welcome any advice you can share, CF, and by whichever route you find most comfortable.

[Merlin]

Cubic Framer wrote:

A large part of my reason for being on this site is to find out if it is worth my effort to pass on these skills.

In what way do you define "worth your effort" please. Surely any knowledge that is imparted - in good faith - must be worth the effort or are you talking monetary value?

If you can manage it please post a few photos of your creations and open it up for discussion, that way you will certainly make yourself aware of; at least, our way of thinking. So far there is little opposition on this site for your idea.

However, when you say that Pete Binghams method of construction was unsafe and suppliers do not understand the concepts, I personally get a big question mark and start to wonder "Where is this guy going".

Help us to help you help us.

[osgood]

However, when you say that Pete Binghams method of construction was unsafe and suppliers do not understand the concepts, I personally get a big question mark and start to wonder "Where is this guy going".

So, I'm not the only one who's been thinking that!

[realhotglass]

Hello again Cubic,

Ah, peak bagging.
Haven't fully got into that here, more a route walker, and the more remote / difficult the better : )
We do detour within reason to get the meaningful / outstanding peaks though.

I understand it is more of a major objective in the UK, with the 285 Scottish Munroes, peak bagging in the UK districts, etc. I used to visit the uk.rec.walking newsgroup often, so got a good feel for it all.

Ok, you have everyone intrigued with your skills !!!
Please, do let us see some examples if possible.
If you can work out how to post a picture, I'm sure everyone would love to see an example or two or the covers and cabinets.

Of course, you may not have a digital pic, or know how to scan, host, and link a pic.
If you needed help with this, I'm sure someone here can give you a run through.

[realhotglass]

So, I'm not the only one who's been thinking that!

Sorry, just read page 2 . . .

I'm sure if Cubic can do what I can for framers over there, that I can do here, then he is all bottled up with excitement.

If Cubic is interested in starting a commercial venture, even part time to keep busy, then he (I don't think he's a she anyway) is obviously tactful and aware of a taking an intro slowly.

Of course, he might be just wanting to share his skills, ideas, etc with the framing world.
It is a terrible loss when little utilised / niche concepts are lost over time.

[Roboframer]

Whatever - just get on with it CF - all good books start at the end!

This is what I do - blah blah photo photo, this is how I do it , blah blah, photo photo - discuss.

You'll get from "WOW - that is just SO stolen" to "Hmmm nice - but not for me"

[cubic framer]

Sorry, just read page 2 . . .

I'm sure if Cubic can do what I can for framers over there, that I can do here, then he is all bottled up with excitement.

If Cubic is interested in starting a commercial venture, even part time to keep busy, then he (I don't think he's a she anyway) is obviously tactful and aware of a taking an intro slowly.

Of course, he might be just wanting to share his skills, ideas, etc with the framing world.
It is a terrible loss when little utilised / niche concepts are lost over time.

Sorry Guys I have had an evening off,

Got a date with 4 waterfalls tomorrow, if bingham did not allow the publication of my critique then what can I do, water under the bridge.

IMG]http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u297 ... 2forpb.jpg[/IMG]

attempting to post an image.

[cubic framer]

So it doesn't work on this site.

Probably have to wait a bit whilstI work it out.

Sorry all, only claimed to be a case maker not a digital wizard.

[Moglet]

Allow me!

You can see Cubic's image here.

Lovely work, and very different, IMO!

BTW, is there anywhere on the forum with a "how to" guide for uploading images?

[cubic framer]

Thanks Moglet,

I will attempt to find out how to post images, when I come back from the Welsh hills.

You will notice from the picture that Moglet has made available, that the cover of the case shown is made with a trim.

Throughout the period I traded I sourced that trim from F.W.Mason's of Nottingham and it was specially made for me. Not one of the most recognised moulding manufacturer's for picture framing trade, I tried to advocate the use of it with many of the moulding manufacturers but always without success.

I also devised a method of making a trimless cover, both of these using my methods have a provenance of over 25 years.

I have approached most of the framing supply industry within the UK and the disinterest is unanimous. There is a view held that the introduction of cases will lessen the amount of wood used in framing objects, I believe that it will increase the quality of moulding used in object framing and the proof is evident in the product of the Victorian three dimensional framers.

There is also an attitude that it is not relevant because acrylic is already here. If this the case, the main earning potential of this form of framing has been taken away from the framer, before it has had a chance to get started.

If the methods I have devised are adopted by framers I believe that there is a logical progression that could make it possible for the framer to have the choice of constructing both glass and acrylic covers.

As with the evidence of the Victorian era both mass produced and bespoke can exist side by side and augment both markets.

[realhotglass]

For CFs and Áines info, with your image link you just missed the front bracket [ before IMG

Not bad Cubic, not bad !
If you did the aged timber finish, that's well done.

Some things are just impractical to frame to hang on a wall.
Footys for example. Just how on Earth are you supposed to easily (conservation) mount a footy, keep the signatures all in reasonable sight, etc.

Much better on a table top or shelf, even better if the client can get to it, and show it off if desired.

I avoid any framing of the top to keep vision as clean as possible.
Using an all glass unit, including the base, makes a very modern look, while a timber base can look more traditional.

Glass is of course a much longer lasting case material than acrylics.

Take a look at my website, button below or above somewhere.
Product index > glass display cases

Actually, I need to update that page a bit with some more recent examples.
Have made some beaut large-ish model ship cases in recent months.

One thing I would love to try soon, is making a footy case or whatever in optically coated glass, it's available in 4mm (and 6mm and 4.38mm laminated).
You just can't see this stuff next to plain clear glass, the vision through it is outstanding, and its edges are clear without any green 'iron' tint.

[Spit]

IMG]http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u297 ... 2forpb.jpg[/IMG]

attempting to post an image.

Actually you nearly got it right - you just deleted the opening bracket '[' at the start of the line




Edit: Darn! RHG beat me to it.

[Merlin]

Thank you CF.

A picture speaks a thousand words.

Now I see where you are coming from.