Spatial framing or display cases.

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osgood

Post by osgood »

cubic framer wrote: I would not wish to devalue the work we did by letting information go without a proper course of instruction.
You really shouldn't treat us as if we are just a bunch of idiots who wouldn't understand a few simple principles. As the old saying goes; "This ain't rocket science"! You don't have to be a member of 'Mensa' to do framing, whether it be flat or 3D!
If you really have something to share, then why don't you just do that instead of baiting your hook then pulling your line in when people bite!
cubic framer wrote: Les is correct, the topic has been informative it has told me that I should probably forget the idea and go for a long walk, I probably will make a few cases.
Oh dear me!!!
Roboframer

Post by Roboframer »

Moglet wrote:I thought the braid idea was really cool! 8)

Well thanks!

But sometimes I can just walk about our place looking for inspiration, something will grab me.

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Post by Spit »

Jeez, John........... How long does it take for you to do a stocktake?
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Post by Moglet »

:P (Note: tongue "hanging out" rather than "poking out"!)

Haberdashery Nirvana! That's some creative resource, John! :D
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Post by Roboframer »

Spit wrote:Jeez, John........... How long does it take for you to do a stocktake?
Aggghhhhhhh - the 'S' word -

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Post by Moglet »

Ye gods!!! :shock:
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Post by Spit »

Ah, that'd be 'guess the stock' take, then....... :D
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Re: Spatial framing

Post by realhotglass »

Steve N wrote:Hi all,
I have 2 t-shirts with artwork or designs on both sides, my customer wants to see both sides of the t-shirts when framed, any ideas. Would these be suitable for Spatial framing ? what does Cubic framer think? how would you guys and gals, go about it ?
This is a serious request for help and info.

Steve N
G'day Steve,

That's certainly a challenging project, and one I've thought about before.

My instant comment is this is not a general display case project (due to the fairly low profile it suits framing in some clever way), that maybe Vivian Kistlers adage 'We're framers, no magicians' might apply, OR you must spend time and the client should be prepared to pay for you to do so.

Robos technique would be somewhat suitable, I would just be concerned with monofilement stretching over time etc, and obviously there is the setting up time etc.
Also, foamboard etc can bow over time, maybe with the moisture inside the package this would happen eventually ?

Congrats though for using your design imagination.

What about . . .

You are going to make a sandwich to be spaced centre inside the back to back rebate space.

Going with Robos design process frame etc up to the insert board.

Instead of f/c, use 3mm coreflute, you know the stable polyester board that's archival for long term mounting ? Sign guys use it a lot.
Cut and laminate (glue) these so that the flutes are opposite for strength.
Now, keep the shape as simple as possible.
At the neck and base, tabs projecting at 4 points.

So, you have a t-shirt in an insert of 2 x 3mm opposing coreflute boards and protruding tabs from neck and base.
You can suitably paint / colour the tabs to better blend with mats ?
* Call this the t-shirt and inserts.

With a full frame rebate size 6mm board (coreflute or foamcore), lay the whole thing centred where you want it, and mark around the t-shirt shape and tabs.

Cut out the 6mm board shape, inc tabs . . . use as straight-ish lines as possible if you can, to keep this fast.
* Call this the holding board.

Cut 2 top mats for the outer sandwich, a good heavy grade matboard, slightly smaller opening to the holding board, so you can both bump lergies into the void, and to of course hide the holding board edge (paint this too if you like).
* Obviously we can call these the mats / mounts : )

So you then lay one mat down, face paper down, then the 6mm holding board, then the t-shirt and insert board in the tab spaces, then the other outer mat paper up.

So this is all laminated to make a sandwich to frame, glued together suitably and weighted overnight, maybe leave a few days to dry properly ?

Ok, so one frame is face down, UV glass placed in the rebate, foamcore / mat lined spacer to centre shirt in double rebate, sandwich (main t-shirt front down), then other foamcore spacer, and maybe then UV acrylic, to both reduce weight and condensation issues for the back (it won;t be as much of a dust issue there, or you might be able to get the scratchproof UV acrylic there ?).

Top mould in the placed over and the whole thing assessed for finishing.

Holding the frames together should be done to suit client and their needs for aesthetics.
You could use keyhole plates and screw heads and the rebate backs to oppose gravity and adjust until they are a very snug fit, then use a small top or bottom plate out of site to ensure it can't move ??

Now, there are two choices with display.
Framed to hang or framed to stand on a table etc in a plinth base.

Hanging.
You could use wire on the back (2 wall hanger setup), but feel d-rings on the back stiles would be more suitable.
Another option is keyhole plates on side stiles.
Obviously there is a front that a client would normally want to display, and the whole thing can lift off the wall to show the other side as they wished.

I suppose it could be suspended from a ceiling to hang at viewing height, would depend on environment and client.

A plinth.
If used it must be wide and stable . . . using raw timber, milled and finished to your needs, or same moulding, stack with same or other wideer same moulding etc to make a plinth for the top to sit in.

Obviously a table of shelf mounted thing, but all round vision is possible.

edit : to say Earth magnets are fairly useful to hold 2 frames together in a plinth, Google Earth magnets if you haven't seem these.

Hey, it's hard to describe this stuff . . . did I do ok ?

So, obviously a lot of extra work to do something like this or Robos technique, make sure you are suitably rewarded !

Gotta go now, work beckons . . . will check back later to see if everyone thinks I'm way out here (hey remember, I'm NOT a framer !). : )
Regards,
Les

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Post by Roboframer »

Monofilament - yes - not the best - this was done pre-Grumble days. It can deteriorate.

If it comes back I'll re-do it for free - with?????

Acrylic rods? maybe even supersoftstrand wire? I dunno, but I know plenty of peeps wot does!
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Post by Steve N »

Hi guys, Moglet, Roboframer and Realhotglass
Thanks for the input, I was thinking along the same lines, I must get a copy of Pete's book, I'm due to put an order into Lion soon, will add it to my list. Once again thanks for the ideas and I will let you know how I get on and I'll post some pics to show you the finished job.
Many thanks

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Post by realhotglass »

Roboframer wrote:Monofilament - yes - not the best - this was done pre-Grumble days. It can deteriorate.

If it comes back I'll re-do it for free - with?????

Acrylic rods? maybe even supersoftstrand wire? I dunno, but I know plenty of peeps wot does!
Could you possibly use the heavier grade (100um) Melinex polyester sheet Robo ?

Cut into long strips and laminate similar between 2 boards ? (Maybe go Coreflute then too, 2 sheets with opposing flutes.)

You might have to go one out vertically from the neck opening, and a couple from the bottom angled outwards for stability ?

If made 40mm to 50mm wide or so, this should provide good stability, and of course won't stretch, break down, or out gas in the package.

Obviously, you weren't using mats in your previous job.
I'd like to see mats, but of course you can keep the see through to the wall paint effect too with your design.

Have thought more, and in my plan above, the mat / mount openings could even overlap the centre board quite a way, maybe a cm or so.

To all . . .

I'm really keen to hear if my idea above sounds practical.
The more I think about it, the more I feel it would be a professional, long term result, and even the quickest way (especially after the initial job experience).

Always like to have an arsenal of ideas I can put to framer inquiries, so want to be sure it is practical in some of your opinions.
Regards,
Les

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Post by Moglet »

Hi Steve,

Good luck with the project. Might be a good idea, too, to take some "work-in-progress" shots so that you can maybe show your next customer for this type of project just how much work will be involved! :)
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Post by Steve N »

Hi Moglet,
Thanks, I was thinking of taking photos as work in progress and I will post them. Once again I would like to thank you all for the ideas.

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Post by Moglet »

Cool! I'll keep an eye out for them!
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Re: Spatial framing

Post by cubic framer »

Steve N wrote:Hi all,
I have 2 t-shirts with artwork or designs on both sides, my customer wants to see both sides of the t-shirts when framed, any ideas. Would these be suitable for Spatial framing ? what does Cubic framer think? how would you guys and gals, go about it ?
This is a serious request for help and info.

Steve N
Sounds like a double sided framing job, many good methods described but does involve turning the display over, suggest photographing both sides and include an image of the reverse in both sides of the display.

Also may I suggest the unthinkable, this is not so outrageous if the display of the graphics is more important than the preservation of the garment, cut it in half and display both halves side by side.

As Les says depends on the intended use and proposed location. A Pivotable display is possible or one set on a stable plinth.

A very simple double glazed box can be made by taking a piece of flat timber with a rebate on both sides. Chop and underpin to form a frame, with the rebate inwards, rebate should be deep enough for glass and a flat slip. (This was the method used by many victorian taxidermist to fix glass into wood carcase cases.) Silicone makes it easier to fix the glass, glue in the glass on one side, and glue in the slip tightly over the glass, the fourth piece can be flexed to fit it in tightly. Similar for the otherside after the the display work is finished.

Using a complementary moulding for a plinth, the bottom side of the box can be dropped into the plinth.

If you have an understanding of the use of side slips in box framing, a lined side slip will form the double rebate.

For some garments it can be be worth considering displaying on some sort of body form, in many instances an increase of the third dimension can reduce the overall perimeter and improve the dislay.

Also the quality of tailoring increases the chance of making a good subject for 3D framing, I cased the blazer of a well known 1950's cricketer, there was no need to show the reverse, but the display was improved by treating it as a 3D object as the tailoring allowed this.

T shirts are not a good subject IMO, however caps are, and I personally prefer to do them with a head form should the commission justify the work. Whenever this has been done for a charity auction the increased expenditure has more that justified by an increased return.
With Regards,

Cubic framer.
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Post by Steve N »

Hi Guys.
Just thought I would update you on the Spatial framing for the two tee-shirts, as you might remember, my customer wanted to see both sides of the shirts, I asked you for ideals, well at long last I have got around to making them. I wanted to make them look like flight cases, as it would give them a more industrial look, which I think goes well with this type of art.

I used Simons moulding obech 105 painted black, with some 10mm aluminium angle from B&Q. I made an inner frame from 44mm x 19mm planed wood to hold the shirts. I cut two formers from Bainbridge Artrestore for each shirt, and before I stuck them together I placed two lengths of plastic perlong (hanging systems) from Lion ,between the two formers, put them in the vacuum press to stick them together. Fitted the shirts to the formers, sewed the shirts to the formers, drilled hole in the inner frame to line up with the perlongs, also cut some black foamcore to fit on the inside of the inner frame with corresponding holes in to take the perlongs. Attached the shirts to inner frame by threading the perlong through the foamcore and the inner frame (did not glue of stick the foamcore at this stage ) pulled the perlongs tight and stapled across the perlongs. Layed the outer frame face down on the bench, cleaned and placed in Conservation glass in, placed in black blackcore mount in, then placed inner frame in, screwed the inner frame to the outer frame through perdrilled holes, stuck the black foamcore to inner surface of the inner frame, placed another black blackcore mount in, then another piece of conservation glass in. Then placed 12mm fillet (painted black) in to hold everything in, screwed in place, then fitted all the corners on (obtained from the internet, DJ's supplies).
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Post by Moglet »

Love the "flight case" design! Seriously funky, Steve!!!! 8)
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Post by Not your average framer »

Hi Steve,

A very nice job! I suspect that not many people would consider using the perlong hanging material for such a job. Did you find it a problem to tension the perlongs, seeing as you secured them with staples?

I can see that a lot of thought went into it and it was beautifully executed too! I think you may have inspired others to do likewise!

I bet the customer was pleased!
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Post by Steve N »

Thanks for the feedback, the perlongs were no problem, and the customer has not seen them yet! I finshed them on Thursday before Christmas and gave him a ring, told him they were ready and we would be closing at 12noon on Saturday the 22nd, he hasn't been in, mind you we are closed until Wed 2nd, so I will expect him in then. Once again thanks for the feedback.

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Post by Moglet »

Question, Steve: what fixings are you using to hang the frames?
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