Another non-white mount...

[vintage frames]

Good to see I exited some friction.
Having a FATG sticker does elevate a framer to a higher degree of standards above say, enthusiastic amateur. It also offers an assurance of the quality of workmanship for the customer.
REAL framing is closer to rocket science when you consider the requirements of such customers as museums and high end art dealers. The results are often uncertain and difficult. Those guys don't suffer fools gladly.
Where a valuable piece of artwork might escape some damage by being framed in a mass produced frame, it's aestethic value and importance is greatly diminished.
As for me - never did the FATG test.

[Geoff]

I would say in general, people don’t have high opinions of themselves... just different ones. You’re right that framing isn't rocket science, nobody I know has ever said it was, but from the viewpoint of someone aspiring to become say, a competent gilder as an example, can seem quite a complex issue if all your experience revolves around factory finished mouldings. Personally, I don’t have any problems with any framer using finished mouldings; it’s when some espouse as being the font of all knowledge when their choice of something is challenged.
Have a good weekend everyone!

[Framerpicture]

Having a FATG sticker does elevate a framer to a higher degree of standards above say, enthusiastic amateur. It also offers an assurance of the quality of workmanship for the customer.

I just wish this was true!

[prospero]

OK. Take it outside guys.

Let's continue this fascinating discussion on non-white mounts without acrimony.

[Not your average framer]

This thread has been moved to the members only section. Please try to remember rule No: 1 (Be nice!)

[vintage frames]

I totally disagree with moving this discussion to a hidden members only section.
There is an important argument to be had here about where picture framing is going and guests should be able to listen in on the debate. The present situation where "high street" framing methods dominates the market cheapens the industry.
I care about the craft of good framing and we need new and interested outsiders to come in and try to be different.
Lets not be lazy and say we're only supplying what the public want. Apple weren't interested to following public tastes when they introduced the i-phone. Look how many new artisan food producers are appearing.
Maybe this topic needs a new title? but no, keep it as is - its more fun.

[prospero]

All good points vintage frames. But this really isn't the topic to air them in.

The title is just fine.

[Not your average framer]

Two different posts in this thread were reported to the moderators. The thread was moved as a precaution while I conferred about issues involved and the thread has now been moved back to it's original position.

Sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused.

[IFGL]

chill we mainly use factory finished mouldings, it is a bit mundane but it keeps me in tea and biscuits, I am not that far off not having to come in to work at all, my staff are awesome and keep it all ticking over nicely, that is never gonna happen because. .......

I would like to continue to learn and advance in my profession and am looking towards people like Geoff who have obvious skill and learning that I do not, I don't care how old and or skilled I get I will be always open to learn more.

[cuthbert]

Full marks to IFGL for that last post – he’s happy to use factory-finished mouldings but certainly recognises the negatives/restrictions in working with them. Vintage Frames spot on re: high street framing methods/cheapening the industry. I only have to look at that moulding selection pic in the first ‘off white’ thread to remind me just how cheap, tacky and vulgar some of the stuff is out there. Or am I not aloud to say that and have to be 'nice' about everything? Slightly ironic if you don’t mind ‘Not Your Average Framer’ to instruct members to be ‘nice’ – simply by branding yourself as NYAF implies that a good number of framers must only be average in what they do and that with your obviously superior talent, reign above them, no? Why is that, for example, any different from me or one or two others here suggesting that hand finished frames knock the pants of factory finished rubbish? Another member who calls himself ‘Old Master’ - sorry, but who on earth outside a coterie of perhaps a handful in his fan club have any interest in his ‘let me tell you the story about…’ inclusions That’s the stage when a thread which should be sent packing and away from the eyes of (dis) interested outsiders – not one that sparks debate. And that's the last comment you'll hear from me.

[John]

On balance I'm not at all sorry that this cuthbert's last comment here.

We can all enjoy a bit of a debate on the forum, however, not when one of the parties is clearly an ignoramus.

[Roboframer]

Hear hear from Tenerife!

[prospero]

I've heard of 'Angry of Tunbridge Wells'. Never thought he would pitch up on this forum.

[Not your average framer]

It is not easy to please everyone if you are a moderator, but it was certainly not my intention to in anyway offend anyone. Two posts in this thread were reported by a forum member. I saw these reports at 1am in the morning, so there was no possiblity of conferring with other members of the moderating / admin team at that time.

I referred the reports to admin to clarify the issues involved and moved the thread to the members only section until potentially sensitive issues were looked at. Afterwards the thread was moved back. All of those who were involved in the thread were already members and could still see the thread in it's original location if logged in and also in the members only section. The thread was still active and indeed others who understood this continued to contribute to the thread.

I find it hard to understand why this should have upset anyone, as the thread continued to be active, however I am happy to appologise without any reservations to anyone who was upset by this. I am also happy to be privately contacted by PM by anyone who wishes to express any concerns to me, or suggest how I can avoid upsetting them in future situations.

Mark

[Trinity]

I think you did the right thing. An element of doubt, you made a decision, nothing's irreversible. you've said sorry if anyone is miffed, so good on you.

[easypopsgcf]

"Not your average framer" and "Old Master" are just user names, as I'm guessing yours is too "cuthbert", surely that's not your real name? I'm guessing it's more like "knob end"

Sorry John, but it's needs saying.