The Framers Forum

Smithy wrote:
Oh well, at least you guys will get plenty of work putting my bodged jobs right!

....and 17 other fences to be taken into account.

....and 17 other fences to be taken into account. [/quote]

LOL - as long as I don't have to appear in front of a 'panel'

Hi Smithy,

Just read your post and thought I would comment. I started a framing business just over three years ago aged 50. It has gone really well for me, so it can be done, but I would say you have to be prepared to invest a fair bit of time, money and effort before it will start to generate income.
I checked out a lot of books (and still do). A lot of folks will recommend Vivian Kistler's books and I agree they are excellent, with the exception of "Articles of Business" which I thought was of limited value. In my opinion "Picture Framing as a Business" by J. Edwin Warkentin, is well written and has a lot of handy tips and advice for the newbie, although he is Canadian, so some of the book is not relevant to the UK.
You will probably find your County Library has several books on framing. It costs nothing to flick through them! Needless to say this forum is a fantastic resource for anyone starting out. Good luck!

Colin.

Confidence and ability comes from practicing!

Good cashflow comes from being careful and not buying more that you need!

Pricing is a difficult one that you need to have a good plan for!

Take care of those three and you should be o.k.

As you are in Surrey you might want to consider the training at East Surrey College [Redhill]. A few hours a week. Having done it for several years I would highly recommend it and in particular the tutor, John Hill.

Thanks so much for the encouragement and advice, all.

Of course, I'm keeping an eye on this thread, so ANY additions are read, digested and gratefully received.

I can thoroughly endorse what you advise, baughen, as I am doing this course at present. John is a mine of great information on framing and a very patient teacher (he'd have to be with me!)

Marylyn

Hi Smithy,
Happy to help with all your training needs and machine new or second hand.
http://www.framersequipment.co.uk/training_framing.htm
www.framersequipment.co.uk.

Kind regards
Mitreman
Jan Stanlick GCF

Very kind of you, MM - I'll bear that in mind.

Hi Smithy

I'm also in the process of setting up as a picture framer. And I too used to work in advertising, but in the creative dept and Studio. I've been self-employed or business owner for most of my career, which gives me the advantage of having previously run a business.

As I have jet to make a frame in my own workshop, I hesitate to give advice to you - but I will anyway The first thing I did, before spending any other cash, was to get 2 days training with an experienced framer and trainer in their workshop. This was one-to-one and focused on what I needed. The group training classes use "hobby" equipment and don't give a realistic experience of what needs to be done.

In my first day the framer explained and demonstrated each process one at a time and I coped the task after each demonstration. On the second day I framed some of my work in the morning and in the afternoon we went through running the business side. We were able to focus on what I needed as I knew the basics of accounts VAT etc. Customers also wandered in and out which added to the experience.

After the two days I completely revised my plans! I realised I needed much more space than I thought and also a different layout of the workshop. Pricing jobs is much more complicated than I was used to, although similar costing creative work, there are more elements and much tighter budgets.

So in two days I got a very broad view of of a framing business.

I hope this helps (and I am older than you )

Jonathan

Thanks Jonathan - good luck to you too, fella.

I'm a bit late to this thread, but I wouldn't go on a course at all (or not yet), I'd save my money. I reckon you can get set up for under £1000, and if you decide it's not for you then you can get most if not all of it back.

I'd go to eBay and buy a Morso (with both right and left arms and authentic blades that are stamped 'Morso Denmark') and a pneumatic underpinner and compressor; you can do this for about £650 if you keep your eyes open. I'd spend £250 on a brand new mountcutter. I'd spend £20 on having the morso blades sharpened. And £30 on a point driver with some points. And £25 on an easy glass cutter that fits the mountcutter and £10 on some glass pliers. That's £985 so far. Then I'd visit a few charity shops and carboot sales and buy some large second-hand pictures for a couple of pounds each - in 'proper' wooden frames with proper glass in them. Otherwise you've probably got the things you'll need (pliers, stanley knife, ruler, tape measure etc.). For practice mount board, use cardboard; free.

Dismantle the pictures, and learn how they're put together. Then turn them into smaller picture frames. Practise, practise. Watch Youtube videos. Go and browse round some trade picture framers suppliers (Lion, or Wessex, or similar) and learn what they sell for mountboard, backing board etc.

When you've decided that framing isn't for you, advertise the kit on here and you won't make a loss. You've probably also framed some pictures you've been meaning to pay to have framed for years. Essentially, you've made a profit out of your abortive project.

Alternatively, you've got a fully-set-up professional framing studio for under £1000 and you've saved £400 on a course that wouldn't have taught you much you didn't learn yourself. Now you can book yourself on whatever course you think is worthwhile.

James I doubt dismantling frames from charity shops will do you much good with respect to best practice. Most of these frames will be mass produced and unlikely to have the artwork attached into the frames to a standard befitting a budding bespoke framer. you will probably encounter a lot of masking tape, self adhesive board and possibly double sided tape to hold artwork in place.

I would also if you intend to buy off ebay to actually go and see the equipment in operation as machines that end up on ebay are usually knackered and not wanted by anyone. If you look at sales on this site for machinery most of it gets snapped up quickly at a fair price. The other root is to buy from a reputable dealer ie one of our wholesalers or one of the handful of framing engineers that we have in this country, that way you will get a good machine with no problems.

Picture framing isn't rocket science but you do need to be pointed in the right direction, a structured course may not be necessary but some insight would be better.

It's got nothing to do with best practice... It's got everything to do with getting going framing without spending much or anything - rather than starting with a £500 course and then deciding it's not for you. And in dismantling old frames you'll learn an enormous amount about what doesn't work, far more easily than with trial and error!

It's all about getting used to handling your machinery and materials. Then it's time to go on a worthwhile course on conservation mounting. You'll get much more out of spending £500 on a Morso than £500 on watching somebody use one. You get infinitely more out of a course if you know what you're doing first.

Yes, you might very well then decide some new machinery is worth it; but you won't have lost anything on the old (not compared with the cost of a course). I've a Morso that's far from new, and a somewhat wheezy Minigraf 4. But I think it unlikely it'll have to make 150 frames a year so it will probably last me 50 years!

I would recommend going on a course. I started 20 years ago by asking my dad to show me how to make picture frames, (he was a carpenter and knew nothing about framing) so we started with a piece of wood, router an, filled the workshop with sawdust, and hand held mitreing saw - I thought there had to be an easier way so did a week's course (Tom Winkworth) which was great, mostly about how to use the equipment which is popular with professional framers, it included morso, keencut ultimat mountcutter, pistorius underpinner and hand held glass cutter, I've recently treated myself to a new cassesse underpinner as the pistorius was hard work, but otherwise the equipment has been perfect. How to get the artwork (of which every item coming through the door is different requiring different designs and treatment), fixed into the frame and flat etc. this has been the tricky part. I veered strongly towards hand finished frames early on as it meant keeping a minimum of stock but have thousands of finishes to offer, enjoyed the creativity of painting the frames, and you don't throw half as much away through damage, and there's always warped wood to deal with. Learnt lots from reading Art business today and other magazines which I haven't seen around recently.

When I started up a local gallery was relocating and selling boxes of offcuts of mouldings for a fiver each. I got few boxes and practised making little frames. There was a good selection of different profiles and finishes so it was a cheap way of learning. Still got some of the frames.

Anybody got a lot of offcuts they want to get shot of?

this might help http://www.manlycurls.com/2012/02/how-t ... fect-tips/

Hi smithy

I have done exactly what you want to do - almost 12 months ago. Happy to have a chat - as long as you are not setting up too close to me .. PM if you want.

best regards

Matt

LOL. I'll drop you a PM Matt....you're a star!