The Framers Forum

Hi Lynn,

Kimberley pinners do figure a lot on this forum that's for sure, I agree that if you've only tried one piece of equipment then it's hard to judge another.

The Cassesse ones get glowing praise on here and I'm very tempted with one. I also like the fact that it's mobile and can be used either way round.

One query I do have though is does the CS79 cope ok with Ash mouldings and Minerva mouldings (which this post started about).

If it does cope admirably with both Ash & Minerva then it would be a worthy addition and looking at the video demo of it on Cassesse's website I'm very impressed.

At £479.00 too it's not a bad price - perhaps Lion and co will be doing special offers on them in the future or New Year.....?

Hi Seán! (Ye gods, another "John"!!! )

Bagel Framer wrote:... do you know the key differences between the two other than the price ...

There's a short feature description for each type on the Lion website: sounds like the 88 can take slightly taller mouldings (85mm vs 80mm on the 79), and from the bumph it sounds like the 79 does not have a clamping system. It might be well worth a quick call to one of Lion's technical advisors to give you the full advantages that the 88 has over the 79.

Sorry for double-post, but forgot to add that I join ash regularly on the CS-88 with no problems. Initially, I found ash tricky, but as I got more used to the feeling given by the machine when inserting wedges into hardwood, I got much better results. Same goes for pinning different profiles: one learns as one goes along how to successfully pin the different types.

Bagel Framer wrote: I like the look and price of the CS79 - I suspect I'm asking an old question but do you know the key differences between the two other than the price (the CS88 is £820.00 from Lion).

Sean,
There are two main differences. The CS88 has a clamping system and an adjustable back support. These are important and make a huge difference.

Obviously, with machinery like this, there are benefits to buying a model with more features. The CS88 would be well worth the extra cost, but if you can buy a used one in good condition it would be better than buying a new CS79.

To check out the CS79, go to: http://www.cassese.com/encrdang/assemblang/79.htm

The CS88 go to: http://www.cassese.com/encrdang/assemblang/88.htm

I think the Cassese CS88 is a better model also, and worth the extra money.

As for prices that you get from catalogues regarding mainly machinery, those figures in my opinion should be treated a guide prices only.

As for the Lion Catalogue, it was issued some months ago and it most have taken some months with the layout and updating pricelists and adding new products even before it went to press so by the time you got it, some of those prices were obsolete.

In the last year I have bought a underpinner and a vacuum press at prices that are nowhere near Lion's prices in the catalogue.

Its not just the Lion one, all the catalogues have some prices that are out of date when you read them.

So it really pays to get on the phone and shop around for the best deals, and dont take those prices as written in stone.

Ormond & Lemon_Drop,

Thanks for the postings - what would you think is a reasonable figure for a used CS88 please?

When buying new, can you suggest places other than Lion and Wessex so I could cast my net a bit wider? A firm in Lincoln was mentioned but I can't remember the name of it just now.

Thanks,

Sean

ashworth and thompson sell machinery, and offer an excellent aftercare service.

Bagel Framer wrote: Thanks for the postings - what would you think is a reasonable figure for a used CS88 please?

Sean,
That's a hard question, but if it were in good condition, probably around half of new price would be reasonable! Less would be better!

When I was buying my 3099 Ultra I had to get finance as I didn't have A$14,500 laying about in loose change and I am glad I did that. I'm sorry I didn't do it earlier when I got finaince for my Gunnar Rapido.
If people are serious about business, they need to investigate all aspects of purchasing the best equipment possible!

Hi again Sean.
If I was looking for a new underpinner, I would not exclude Lion or Wessex, but I would shop around for the best deal that I could get, and believe me they will all differ in the prices.

I used Lions prices as a base, mainly because its the only english catalogue of prices I have, and they are in my opinion a good company, but I honesty think that the prices of machinery are just guide lines.

I think that if you phone Lion they will beat their catalogue price easily.

Ashwort & Thompson sell new and used machinery also like Grahame said.

Also theres a link on the Picture Framer's directory to Neil Stout's website. He is engineer, specialising in the picture frame machinery. I would phone him , he might know if theres an used underpinner hidden someplace. Link to his website:
http://www.framingengineer.com/
I think hes a member of this Forum also.

D&J Simons

I have never ever used them for machinery - and that is because I used to have Euro Mouldings within spitting distance

They are big; they are ugly - but get past the clutter and confusion which is their catologues, brochures & price lists and they are superb.

I used to buy loads of stuff for Simmons but I found that the one thing you could rely on them for was that there would be at least one thing fouled up on each order. And the "customer sevice" left a lot to be desired.
The last straw was when they invoiced me twice for the same order and would not back down even though it was patently obvious that the fault was theirs.
But last month I had a visit from a rep (first in about 15 years)
I was so taken aback that I gave him an order. Even more suprised to find that my account was still active. Is this a sign of the times??

Thanks guys, the vendors will all be approached. I agree with Ormond that the CS88 does more than the CS79 and the fact that it clamps the frame too is a no brainer. I was swayed by the fact that the CS79 has the add on kit to press those hangers into backing board/MDF but as I don't use MDF that often it's not tha much of a carrot.

One "lastish" question if have with the CS88 - does it cope with Minerva/plastic mouldings well? I'm keen to continue using Minerva from Lion and need a pinner that's up to it. It does Ash no problem, so I suspect the answer will be yes.

Half of the new price seems to be the figure for a used CS88 - thanks again Ormond..!

Sean

Success for me recently gluing a Minerva Moulding (frame size 18" x 36" and moulding M118-32) - don't know if anyone else is still struggling at all, but I used Bison PU Max Glue and clamped the four sides for a day and then transferred the frame to my CS88 where I was able to put three 10mm v nails in each corner using a slow action.

Prior to all of the above I made three test chevrons (which all pinned fine) using the following:

- Loctite Super Glue Liquid
- Mitre-Mate
- Bison PU MAX

The beauty of the Bison is that you have ample time to clamp the four sides in the clamp, with the others you don't as it's instant.

Looks like Bison's the way to go....

PU glues like Bison are fine and work very well. The only note of caution is that by their chemistry, they tend to expand a little. If not controlled, it can force the joint to open. So, use very sparingly and clamp tight.