Valiani Repairs - testing the new provider

fionnuala · Post by **fionnuala** » Wed 12 Mar, 2008 7:07 pm

ditto.

have dell desktop for 8 years and now a dell laptop. v happy with both.

just bought printer for laptop. guess what brand? yup u guessed it HP!! And it is acting up!!

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Wed 12 Mar, 2008 9:50 pm

Although Im not a valiani user (me = wizard) I reckon you ought to give joe a break - after all its the busiest time of year with them flying out of the spring fair and all. (rather like motor dealers used to be an the 1st of August here in the UK, all the sales happning at once).

From what I have seen of John (merlin's) old Viliani, it will all pan out OK. After all, he has bought another, so that speaks volumes.

Me? I'd have another wizard, lol.
Sam seems to manage all the UK Wizards single handed with no problems.

Re: Dell computers. Ive always built my own.....but for my son at uni I bought a Dell lappy, the best monitor I've got at the shop happens to be a Dell, both our printers are Dell. Ive also had probs with HP printers

If I couldn't be bothered building and wanted one in a hurry for work I'd either buy a Dell, or Hewlet Packard or Packard Bell. All of which seem basic but well put together with reasonably up to date parts except the graphics cards. But then again, how high spec graphics card to you need at work?

The bought in computers at the shop are Compaq Evos. WBS (Well built Sh*te

) and the wizard came with a bulletproof, preconfigured high spec but very low RAM (256) beige german box.

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Wed 12 Mar, 2008 10:38 pm

Love this thread!

Spend this amount of dosh; I want it right first time thank you very much -and so far I'm pretty glad I didn't order anything at the fair.

Simons are one big beast and I thought that if anyone could get it right 1st time, they could.

You telling me they have left just one guy to oversee their Spring Fair Glitz?

Were I A.N. Other big name supplier, I'd be looking at becoming the main distributor of A.N. Other CMC!!

It needs a TEAM - not a person ..... or two, or three.

WelshFramer · Post by **WelshFramer** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 8:25 am

Well, Wizard made a mistake when they delivered my new CMC.

The CMC was fine but they included a box of 30,000 blades - I gather that's about a three-month supply for the whole UK! Unfortunately Sam took them back with her after the training session.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 9:37 pm

Mike, I expect sam mentioned it, but make sure you have a spare air clamp or two in stock. They tend to go at random moments. we get through a couple a year. I think they tend to get damaged when you are re-using dropout pieces (offcut) with bevelled edges, and they "slice" into the clamps (maybe). This particularly applies if (like most wizard users) you mostly cut from the front.

Or you can do what Tom did, you can tie up the air clamp before the split in a "blood knot" with fishing line while you are waiting for framers corner to send a new one. A bit longer to sort out than the old "mole grips on the air pipe" gag, but at least you still keep two working clamps.

Now you are going to tell me you've got the 8500E aren't you

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Thu 13 Mar, 2008 9:40 pm

Just had a tought - they ought to have called the wizard forum "the unseen university" (after Pratchett)

WelshFramer · Post by **WelshFramer** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 2:29 pm

Thanks for the advice - Sam didn't mention getting spare clamps.

At the moment I'm renting the 8000 but I'm wondering whether I should take the money out of the bank and buy it.

The only problem is that it's the wife's bank account but I've been trying to persuade her that it would be cheaper in the long run.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Fri 14 Mar, 2008 8:23 pm

In the same situation I would spend the same amount of money on a new bike instead

I have been working on my wife to convince her that a new bike would be cheaper than the existing one lol.

I get that look. Yeah, and all pigs fed and ready to fly, kev.

well its a capital item, so the actual cost, tax write-off wise, between rental and purchase is marginal, and depends on your circumstances. Worth seeing an accountant on that one, specially if funding it from your own pocket rather than via the bank.

Its a nice feeling to own a substantial bit of equipment, not just the financial side, but it reminds you that you are getting somewhere
the vast majority of wizards in the states seem to be rentals, but that seems to apply to a lot of capital items in US business, and its becoming more common here.

I know one framer who leases his entire workshop inventory, morso and all

I've just figured how he manages to go bankrupt every ten minutes, but the business never closes and he drives a (leased?) lexus..... he doesn't own anything that can be taken away from him!

WelshFramer · Post by **WelshFramer** » Sat 15 Mar, 2008 10:23 am

The big unknown between rental and purchase is future maintenance. The rental includes a warrantee and it's difficult to know how much that's actually worth.

Mary Case GCF · Post by **Mary Case GCF** » Sat 15 Mar, 2008 6:46 pm

new delivery date of "Before Thursday" and installation the week after.

could really do with it being sooner, so much that needs done work wise that has to be put aside just now. but ho hum, will just have to wait.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Sat 15 Mar, 2008 6:50 pm

Did they mention which Thursday...

Merlin · Post by **Merlin** » Sat 15 Mar, 2008 6:56 pm

Mary
I feel for you. You have to wait a week for the 'correct' beast to arrive.
Then, you have to sit there and look at it in a box for another week.

Believe me though, once you are given free reign, it will be worth it.

Grahame Case · Post by **Grahame Case** » Sat 15 Mar, 2008 7:21 pm

speaking on my own behalf here, not of the business,

i think it is pretty terrible what ourselves and Rolf have been put through over this whole saga. What is even more annoying now is the fact that the Valiani will be sitting in a box taunting me for a week, and what is worse is i have a website awaiting the installation and arrival of the Valiani, when it does arrive i can build it and finalise sizes and prices that we will offer.

looking at the potential lost web revenue it is quite a lot really!

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Sat 15 Mar, 2008 7:53 pm

WelshFramer wrote:The big unknown between rental and purchase is future maintenance. The rental includes a warrantee and it's difficult to know how much that's actually worth.

I think the warranty is £1200 for two years after the initial first year. But this might have changed.

So I guess you can say thats £50 a month for support?

I'm sure other CMC users will agree that once the initial magic spell wears off, and you stop being in awe of the machine, and you have been in there with the allen keys once or twice, they are actually quite straightforward robust machines, and all seem to be incredibly reliable in comparison to similar costing items (eg a new car).

imho the wizard, coming from the rental market background in the US is made (some might say over engineered in typical american fashion) not to go wrong. People in the US do expect rock solid reliability from plant and machinery. Its got sound "roots".

If you buy, I think the decision on purchasing the extra warranty might all hinge on how comfortable you are with spanners just in case, and having a few hundred quid "set aside" in case a major part fails. You will certainly get the very expert and prompt tech support from Sam either way.

In our first year ours developed a calibration problem. It was just "not right" one morning, and defied all attempts at calibration. Sam sent us a replacement head and driver pack.
Shortly afterwards the USB failed on the PC, so that was probably the problem all along.
The replacement warranty PC arrived, ready to go and preconfigured the next day.
I cannot speak highly enough of the wizard tech support from Framers Corner and also Wizard Germany.

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 6:09 am

Grahame Case wrote: i think it is pretty terrible what ourselves and Rolf have been put through over this whole saga.

Grahame,
I would be throughly p*#&ed off if I were in your place. In fact I have been extremely annoyed at three of my suppliers in the past two weeks who have stuffed up!
What about all the time you have spent unpacking and re-packing the machine. Who is going to cover your labour cost for that time??? You could have been working productively during that time!

Grahame Case wrote: and what is worse is i have a website awaiting the installation and arrival of the Valiani, when it does arrive i can build it and finalise sizes and prices that we will offer.

looking at the potential lost web revenue it is quite a lot really!

I'm not sure that your losses in this area would be greater than the time you have wasted unpacking and packing!

Sales of mats from websites do seem to be a bigger thing up there than they are down here. When I rebuild my website, I will put some mats on it and see if anyone is interested in buying them, but I won't hold my breath waiting for my first sale. I will extremely surprised if I sell any at all!

WelshFramer · Post by **WelshFramer** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 9:20 am

kev@frames wrote:I'm sure other CMC users will agree that once the initial magic spell wears off, and you stop being in awe of the machine, and you have been in there with the allen keys once or twice, they are actually quite straightforward robust machines, and all seem to be incredibly reliable in comparison to similar costing items (eg a new car).

They do look pretty easy to maintain - the cutting head and the control box seem like the only things that might cause an expensive failure. Sam suggested they either go wrong quite quickly or almost never.

Not sure about your comparison with cars. I bought a new Honda CR-V with a 3-year warrantee. When that expired they offered me a 3-year extension for a one-off payment of under £700 which included Europe-wide breakdown and recovery - an offer I wasn't able to refuse. So far I've only used that warrantee once which was when I had a flat battery. Oh, and when I had the last MOT they fixed the interior light without a charge so either it was too trivial to charge for or they included it in the warrantee (I didn't ask).

markw · Post by **markw** » Sun 16 Mar, 2008 9:53 am

If I was Simons or Valiani I would be fairly concerned that my reputation was being damaged on a forum read by many of my potential customers.

We all cock up at times but the true measure of any business is the way that it recovers the situation and limits any loss of confidence the error creates.

I would have expected Simons to have sent someone to repack and uplift the machine from Scotland. The rep would have been there same day to aplogise and assure you that all was being done to have your machine delivered asap.

As it is, without trying Wizard are looking good by reputation, providing the service needed.

Valiani presumably changed agents to improve the service offered - As a Valiani user I am watching this thread and thinking "hope nothing happens to my machine because I'm on my own"

Now the reality is that I would be phoning Valiani direct and talking to Luca or Nico and in my experience they pull the stops out and get things sorted very quickly. I am inclined to think that Simons are the ones dragging their feet here.

daviddeer · Post by **daviddeer** » Tue 18 Mar, 2008 8:33 pm

Well when I first started this thread, I thought it would just be a simple matter of following a repair request from start to finish. Comparing the experience to an earlier one I had through Richard at Peregrine. I would simply timetable events as they happened. I was unprepared for Grahame and Mary's' dramatic experience and that the eyes of the World were following this topic.
I have not criticised or judged any individual or Company nor would I wish to. I am sure that those reading this thread will decide for themselves the direction they will take when selecting a CMC. Bearing in mind that when you spend thousands on a piece of machinery that forms the central hub of your business, something which becomes the lynch-pin of your organisation, you want it to work. When it does it is like a Eagle soaring, taking your dreams and aspirations ever higher, forcing you to examine your creativity and challenging you to push the limits of your business further into a bright new future. When it stops working, it is like being locked in a darkened room, without hope. Mine stopped working.
I was devastated.
So who could help me? It was Sunday. Email Valiani; my first thought. So off I go and Send Luca an Email. A week later he replies from France. Can you imagine how long a week seems when you have just lost the use of one of your limbs. OK, second option, contact Valiani agent in the UK. Sounds good, he rings back and will call tomorrow, feeling mildly optimistic I might get it working soon. Another week goes by - lost my number. Another week of feeling helpless and alone, yes I now realise that I am. I fixed the clamp problem by undoing every nut and bolt I could find and cleaning everything and putting it back together. The cutting head now magically descends and the blade actually penetrates the mountboard. But it is out of calibration, sometimes it cuts through a single mat sometimes not. I have followed the instructions on setting the cutting depth over and over until I know them by heart. I check, set, recheck, reset, check again, recheck, set the depth, recheck, reset, test, reset, check............Same problem every time. Now it quits half way through cutting multiple apertures for no apparent reason, just stops cutting and returns to the start position. Sometimes it cuts cleanly through each corner or edge and sometimes it does not, so now I have to start nicking out every mount. But surely that defeats the point of having a CMC.
Perhaps it is the software? Mine cannot be updated the circuit board is over 18 months old. But someone here had his board changed by Valiani. Yes a one off, a difficult and expensive exercise which unfortunately cannot be repeated in my case. So here I am, one week and two days later staring at a machine which I have half fixed myself and has taken every penny I had in the World, feeling alone, desolate and overwhelmed. If I had the energy to cry I would have shed more tears than there are lost souls on this Earth. Finally realising that there is no-one I can call.

I pray most earnestly that your Valiani never breaks down.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Tue 18 Mar, 2008 8:44 pm

Sympathies David, broken CMC is like a key member of staff going off sick.

Do you have a viliani user group or other forum to seek help/advice from ?

Maybe its time for all of us CMC users to get together and form some sort of pool of advice - or draw other cmc users into this forum? Sooner or later CMCs will become the rule rather than the exception in framers shops.

Not knowing how your machine works doesn't help us offering advice

But if it was a wizard I would suggest looking at the USB connections, cycling the driver pack, and checking your windows USB root and other USB drivers.

And just throwing one wild card in--- you are not using a wireless keyboard or mouse are you?

... also not wanting to be partisan to any machine or the other, if anyone is considering a CMC, the above saga does make rental look like an option well worth considering at least.

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Tue 18 Mar, 2008 9:22 pm

David,
I feel very sorry for you that you have not been able to get the service that you should be entitled to!
Thankfully, mine has never let me down like that and it's about ten years old now!

How long have you had this machine?

I hope you are continuing to pester the service agents, several times a day. Just don't leave them alone. They will tire of you nagging and do something about it.

Are they aware of this topic here? Perhaps they need to be told about it and that there are a number of prospective CMC buyers reading this!