JonC wrote:Hi again all
Am I missing something somewhere here . Because at £54 to £55 for this frame seemms like pie in the sky to me . As does £40 per hour lab charge. We charge £20 per hour and feel very lucky to get it. Ah just realised Im the MUPPET whos customers keep their hands tight on their purse strings unless I work for nothing.
I have another solution --Move to Cornwall"
Where the street seem to be paved in gold.
John Shaftesbury
our cheapest price would be about that. and the customerr would still get a pretty good choice. paying the £40 or £50 is optional, we wouldn't twist their arm!
streets of cornwall lined not with gold, but chewing gum, actually, I think.
......
and where the property prices and business overheads are second only to london, and the wages and disposable incomes are about the lowest in the UK
"Doc Martin" and "The Wild west" (and straw dogs, come to think of it) are more documentary than fiction
Direct costs of running a workshop: £60 an hour isn't an unreasonable running cost is it? not for a high street retail shop with workshops, with all the regulations complied with.
might vary a bit around the country but for every hour the shop is open £1 an hour vanishes into business rates, up to £30 an hour vanishes into staff wages when everyone is in the workshop, then heating, then lighting... water rates....and thats without the costs of the property itself, without maintenance and ongoing replacement equipment, then there is fatg membership, national insurance, public liability insurance, blade sharpening, consumables, cleaning and cleaning materials etc. Then over £1000 a year emptying waste bins and cullet produced in the workshops, then the compulsory stuff
required by law compressed air vessel (compressor tanks) testing, electrical PAT tests, software licenses, health and safety books, fire extinguisher testing or replacement, fire alarms, HSE notices and costs of complying with regulations -all these are direct workshop cost.
Now of course it goes without saying that we all pay our rates, we all pay our bills, and we all get all the necessary inspections on our equipment that the law requires, dont we. And we all have to renew and upgrade equipment from time to time, and its the workshop that pays for this.
I started like many people in this job do, ruining the dining room table making frames for myself with a second hand keencut laser, bought with a borrowed £200 and a mitre saw from the DIY shop. And for the first two years I claimed benefits (earnings legally declared) to make ends meet, my kids went to school with holes in their shoes etc and Im not going back to those "happy days" if I can help it.
The reason I
have to charge for labour at the rates I do is because I want am not going back to the dining room table and a mitre saw -at least until I retire from full time work, and then I'm taking a morso to the shed
A frame back then (FATG budget)would take me an hour, same budget frame now takes three minutes at the most in our workshops and costs half as much to make. And this efficiency by my staff and equipment is reflected in the price the customer will pay, which is very good value for money.
what we should have added, is
how long it takes to make that frame.
If they want a proper bespoke frame they will still get good value for money, and get what they pay for, and nothing less, no corners cut (forgive the pun). They know they will, and thats why they are happy to pay.
We still do the cheap end of the market, its our bread and butter. But we dont chase it. It took me ten years to realise that people dont come to you just because you are the cheapest, a lot of the time they come to you and happily pay extra because they too work for themselves and understand that there's a "going rate" below which corners may well get cut, and below whicjh you wont be there for them to come back to next year.
Paved with gold! rotflmao! last holiday = 8 years ago, in Devon. I run a 12 year old motorcycle and a 10 year old car -and that is shared with my wife. I wouldn't make a living if the prices I charged didn't reflect my workshop overheads.
Like Markw we cut costs -CMC, reducing waste, etc. But we wouldn't have a CMC (for example) if we were not charging the right rate for what we do, we couldn't afford one otherwise.
with three people in the workshops we offer one-hour framing if required. 3 people can produce five times the output of one man, specially when each is on a fixed part of the job - usually one on mounts and glass, one on frame rim, one on backing and finishing. We also have to try and pay people the right rate for what they do. I probably get a lower hourly rate than my lowest paid staff, and I dont include my own "pay" in the costs of running the workshop.
and what about the
years spent learning the trade -what price can you put on that?
I admit it is easier with a high street shop where the customers can see your workshops and equipment, to justify the charges. they can see what you are doing, they can see where the money goes, and they can see what you have (or have not) invested in to do their job. Its also easier with a high street shop to "add value" to the overall shopping experience (as they say) by making them feel valued when they come in the shop, and they gladly pay for the attention and service and advice.
note- what british framers earn is miniscule in comparison to American framers. A lad came to work for me, straight out of school. four years later he's on Nantucket Island -picture framing. the answer isn't move to cornwall, the answer is move to America, or any place where the grass seems greener
