The Framers Forum

Jonny2morsos wrote:I walked past the "Parking Suspended" signs when I left Simons and I have to say I would have missed them too.

I went to Hackney council's website to see if I could do the appeal on line but I can't because I've paid, once I'd put my ref No and registration in a page came up with all the times, details and photos. How did I miss THIS!!!
This does not look like the sign I remembered seeing, I seem to remember a floppy plastic thing and not on the same post as the normal restriction sign, but I could be wrong. I mean I actually WALKED BACK FROM THE CAR to read the (top) sign and I STILL didn't see any other sign. (I didn't tell Hackney council that in my appeal!)

You can see the ticket machine in the last shot though - no sign on that.

Nothing to do with my own dispute, but I have asked them why the van in front of me, which was there when I parked, was still there when I got back. It had a ticket but that fine is £120 (£60 if paid within 10 days) so why do I pay more for a much shorter stay? Because they can't lift a van? Big deal, still not fair.

Hi John

I walked down Hackney Road to Bethnal Green at 4.30pm and after your experience I had a good look and, yes you are right, the sign was definitely different to the one in the photo above. I will happily tell Hackney Council if required.

No you are not wrong the sign was on yellow plastic approx 30 x 40cm.

That sign is the one by the van, I couldn't see it from the drivers seat because of the van, and I never looked anyway and you probably didn't see it for the van either. The sign I saw, or should I say missed, is behind my car and past the ticket machine and is also below the usual restriction sign.

When I parked there was a vehicle in front of that sign as well and I pulled up alongside it to read it, I suppose all I could see above the vehicle was the usual restriction sign, it really should have been covered with the temporary sign to cancel it out, ditto for the ticket machine - no room for error then.

such bad luck but if you ever come to sell your car you have some lovely photos you can use

thats a point - did they do ANY damage scratches etc?

Hello people
long time, no etc

John I'm sorry you had such an awful experience! Hackney has a way of biting people on the behind. There's more than one reason why I choose to runs my business without a vehicle, but you've definitely come up against one of them.

The other week another business in my building had their van ticketted when it was parked on the yard in front of the building. The rear bumper was hanging 4 inches over the 7 foot wide pavement, and this, apparently, constitutes an obstruction.

Jonny2morsos wrote: Sometime later I found myself outside the Hackney Empire and town hall where a very nice lady told me it was 20mins walk back the way I had come from.

Johnny, you must have walked by the end of my road - to think you came within about 50 yards of Framejunkie global HQ, and never even knew! You'd have been most welcome to drop in for a cuppa, or to smoke some crack with me(yes - everything you've heard about Hackney is true! )

BTW Ray the Framer should be called Ray the Glass Merchant Who Bought A Morso. And yes he is still there as far as I know.

mikeysaling wrote: did they do ANY damage scratches etc?

No, the car compound guy explained how they lifted the car and asked me to check for damage, there was none. (no idea why the alarm never went off though - the car has a towing alarm as well as the usual interior sensor alarm)

At the Simons stand at the Spring Fair I met a couple of people that helped me on the day and was told that I wouldn't be charged for the next Valiani day, which I WILL drive to .... I've RTFsatnavM now!

My sister lives in London close to Kings College Hospital and Denmark Hill Station. In their road there is no parking between 12.00 and 14.00 except for resident permit holders (they have a permit) this is to prevent commuters and hospital staff clogging up the street. Which seems fair enough I suppose but is a right pain when they have family to visit.

They have however had a ticket because they parked partly across the entrance to their driveway (by a few inches) causing an obstruction. So what were they obstructing? - yep, that's right their own driveway!!!

My appeal was rejected - surprise surprise!

I can now go to an independent geezer for a 'final decison' yeah, right. But I will, it's free and there's two chances.

I can't describe how furious I am about this, I simply did not see the temporary yellow signs but I did see the permanent/usual one. It must follow, unless I am trying it on, that room for error was left. If I could afford it, both money and time, I'd happily take Hackney council to court just to prove a point and risk losing even more money, and I'm also in no doubt that their 'computer says no' response to my appeal was in the worry that if they fessed up to any procedural error, each and every vehicle ticketed/towed on Hackney road that day would also have a case.

The yellow signs were at chest height, they were hidden by parked vehicles, leaving the normal signs visible above - simple. After seeing those permanent signs I had no responsibility whatsoever to search for other signs contradicting them, it's just not what you'd do.

Please insert plural of the very very worst obscenity that you can think of here ................. !!!

Have appealed to the independant adjudicator and received a letter saying the hearing, which I can attend (have opted not to in case I get towed again) will be on April 17 and I can send more evidence for my case if want, which I have done with some diagrams showing how the signs were miss-able - indeed how I actually missed them.

Then I got a copy of Hackney council's case against me - a huge wad of paper - about 2 Radio Times thick - honest. It's nothing but procedure, but it must have taken so long to put together that it's actually written off my £260! The best bit was the last sentence of the last page ...

"Both the PCN (Parking Contravention Notice) and the vehicle release fee have been paid, therefore the council considers this as full and final settlement and the case is now closed. The London Borough of Hackney therefore respectfully requests that the adjudicator rejects this appeal"

What a feckin' bunch of feckin' feckers.

you should have paid 'under protest and without prejudice' i believe that would have preserved your later claim/action against the council

Must have got the date of the appeal wrong, had a letter today - rejected, surprise surprise.

Within the letter it stated that I was claiming I missed the sign because it was underneath the normal one and not covering it. Not true, I missed it because it had a vehicle parked in front of it leaving the normal one visible above it. But apparently, signs that are to be read from your vehicle are placed head-on to the road; signs that are placed side on to the road are to be read on foot.

Silly me.

BTW - Hackney receives more government grants per head (about £1,050) than anywhere in the country; W Sussex, where I live, is the 5th lowest in the country at £150 per head, with the lowest in the country being £125 per head.. So I suppose the money they stole from me went to a good cause.

Of all the London Boroughs only Newham is worse on the indicators for the key poverty factors (Low income & benefits, Low pay, Low educational attainment, Ill health & Inadequate housing).

Source: http://www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/policy ... rofile.htm

Hopefully your cash will be used wisely to help those worse off than ourselves although I doubt there is any left after paying for all the beaurocracy.

I still think you have been robbed by the way.

shouldn't say it - but robo - you are the x colour and religion and don't deal 'other than frames' and don't have a BMW - you would never win ! ok im in th banned camp now!!


By mikeysaling at 2011-04-16

When I made my appeal I was given several headings to appeal under and the only one that fitted the bill was that the council had made a procedural error.

It's clear from which things the adjudicator chose not to mention in his letter, e.g. the signs being concealed by cars (that should not have been there, but that's not my fault) and the ticket machine enabled and with no restriction sign on, that he simply did not want to uphold the appeal, because if he did he would also be stating the council made that procedural error and everyone that got fined/towed on hackney road over that suspended period, would have had a case to claim their money back.

I'll write to the head of Hackney council and Boris too and tell them what I think of it all and suggest that this procedure is looked at to make signage impossible to miss.

probably ok with boris - not sure the others speak english - let alone read it. btw i'm missing any attachments - just come out as 'loading' !

I have a lot of sympathy Robo. My daughter used to live in Newham and one day the council decided to paint yellow lines around the housing estate she lived on. It was blocks of flats and very few car parking spaces. She used to park the car off the road and on the pavement but move the car around dawn to avoid the attendants. So the council decided to send out someone at 4am to book all those that had parked on the pavement. Needless to say she doesn't live ther any more.