The Framers Forum

I will be there! Should be a good evening, and one of the benefits of FATG membership . . . .

Details now posted in General Discussion - Hand Finishing Demonstration

Do remember to book if coming.

I’ve had the email and am probably going to come along, I’m aboard as I write this so will confirm with her indoors when I’m at home next week.

I wish that meeting was a little closer to little old Dorset... just setting up a framing workshop, and also need to know what to buy to hand finish frames, and would like to learn how to use gesso. I'm an artist with an exhibition to frame by May, which will be the opening of my new art gallery, just bought the best bargain Morso ever and tried it out this-evening, that's easier than the hand saw/guillotine! trying not to panic...

framemaker wrote: When I first started framing one of my favourite books was 'The Art of Framing' by Piers and Caroline Feetham. It is a broad ranging book but has some brief info on various finishes and lots of photos that should give some inspiration as to what can be done.

What an excellent recommendation. Picked up a copy second hand on Amazon quite cheaply.

If you like that book, then you will probably like the other book, "Displaying Pictures" by Peers Feetham and Caroline Moggs. It a good inspiration and ideas book. If you want to, you can always have a look at my copy when you come on the hand finishing course later this month.

Like the first book it is long out of print, so you will need to search for a second hand one, but it's a great book to have!

GeoSpectrum wrote:Can anyone suggest a short 'shopping list' of waxes, paints etc that newbies could start with?

I'm not sure that a shopping list is the best way to get started. It's probably easy to pick a single moulding which will suit your needs and start by using that moulding with some simple finishes, which again will be driven by your needs. This will keep your shopping list small and help you to avoid buying things which seemed like a good idea at the time, but never got used.

Start with the basics and master them first. As you develop your skills, you will naturally want to go to the next step and by then you probably will know what you want to do next. Hand finishing can be very enjoyable to do, but don't forget why you are doing it. You goals in hand finishing should be business driven and need to make good business sense.

At first, there is no point in buying a large range, or large quantities of anything. Start small and let your customer orders teach you what works and also pay for your growth in terms of range and quantity of stock.

Thank you all for your help and advice, it's very reassuring knowing that you are all out there offering advice if needed! Liked your frame J2M, interesting that you used acrylic artists paint, as I have plenty of these, so I might experiment with them first.

Had a very frustrating day yesterday, as it took me hours to master a small label window, as I had to keep adjusting the blade in my Keencut - I'd pushed it through for a previous job to cut through 2 mounts together, and couldn't get it back in the right position. So kept undercutting and overcutting, I wish there was some kind of scale on the blade depth so you can get it back to the position you know works for you!

Anyway, I eventually cut one perfectly, - a small label window under the main window, and then I noticed I'd got a greasy fingerprint on the mount, and as it's a dark sepia colour it really shows!!!! I don't suppose there are any tricks of the trade to get rid or do I have to start all over again!!!!

Thanks

Julia wrote: Had a very frustrating day yesterday, as it took me hours to master a small label window, as I had to keep adjusting the blade in my Keencut - I'd pushed it through for a previous job to cut through 2 mounts together, and couldn't get it back in the right position. So kept undercutting and overcutting, I wish there was some kind of scale on the blade depth so you can get it back to the position you know works for you!

Assuming you have a Keencut Gold, then when you adjust the balde for a deeper cut you turn a hexagonal headed screw. Count the number of part turns you make. Each time you rotate by 60 degrees the next side of the hexagon is the same position as the last. Hope this makes sense! Dick Clarke showed me this when I went on a course at Keencut. Also making pencil marks on the blade holder helps determining the end of cut when you are not using the stops.

GeoSpectrum wrote: What I find daunting is that there are so many finishing materials out there and so many products on the market that I am not sure where to start. Can anyone suggest a short 'shopping list' of waxes, paints etc that newbies could start with? I know it’s a bit of 'how long is a piece of string' type request but a little point in the right direction would be a great help.

The waxes I use most are liming, dark oak, medium oak, clear (I prefer Renaissance but any clear will do for starting), and I'll stop there because I keep thinking of others I use! As for paints I like Plaka, and use the black, yellow brown, and red brown the most - these are suited to more tradition paint/gilt finishes (I also use the yellow and brown but the first three the most) I like the Farrow & Ball sample pots for other paint finishes, but really you could choose to use acrylics paints, Everest, or any other range and get good finishes. Everyone has their own different ways of doing things, so as Mark (NYAF) said, I don't think it is a good idea to get lots of materials, start with just a few and develop basic finishes first. You may want to practice staining, waxing combined with some gilt detail first, or the more traditional gilt, or modern paint finishes. But the possibilities are so vast it is difficult to give an actual shopping list without knowing which you want to do.

Maybe the Everest range is a good start, as you can follow the step by step info sheets from Lion, or watch Pete Bingham's demos to get a head start.

Cool J2M (though the inner frame looks a bit pink to me). You're going to put the moulding companies out of business. Then we'll all make more money.

Roll on the day when suppliers stock unfinished versions of all their mouldings. Or compo only.

I sometimes buy finished moulding for the sole purpose of refinishing it. Particularly ornate stuff. Just because I want that shape. It's OK up to a point. It's really not on to buy a moulding where most of the cost has gone into the finish and then scrape it all off. I used to get loads of the old ornate 'mirror' moulding which was dirt cheap but had a horrible brassy gold finish. But the base moulding was good and looked very classy with a softer gilt finsh. Unfortunately it seems to have all but vanished from the market.

The times I have looked though reps samples and seen loads of useful moulding shapes. Yes, they can get it unfinished - if you take 1000 metres.

Maybe the Everest range is a good start, as you can follow the step by step info sheets from Lion, or watch Pete Bingham's demos to get a head start

.

I did just that. A FATG evening watching and talking to Pete and one starter kit of Everest paints and a few odds and ends. Even that has allowed me to offer an additional range of nice staied finishes with hardly any effort quite a lot of fun (and profit). Im working on the gilt finished but am not happy yet with my efforts or the profiles I have.

Who would you say has the best range of unfinised mouldings? I'm not getting much inspiration from Mainline and Wessex.

prospero wrote:Roll on the day when suppliers stock unfinished versions of all their mouldings. Or compo only.

I mentioned this to my arqadia rep and his boss, saying that there was a market for it but I don't think it is a market they wish to encourage. My rep was a bit put out when I said most of my work for the large exhibitions I frame for will be done in hand finished and that this may not be his moulding.

I previously used a lot of the Larson and the other expensive ones at the beginning of the catalogue. Why should I spend £20-30 a metre when I can use a £6.00 and make a more interesting and unique moulding.

Yes after turning down my dads offer of sending me on a Pete Bingham course 15 years ago, as I didn't think it would work for commercial framing I have seen the light.

Graysalchemy wrote:I previously used a lot of the Larson and the other expensive ones at the beginning of the catalogue. Why should I spend £20-30 a metre when I can use a £6.00 and make a more interesting and unique moulding.

In principle there's a lot in what Allistair is saying here, but you do have to have a commercial attitude to what you are doing and how you are doing it. Allister already has the neccessary commercial attitude and flair, so he is already going for it.

Hand finishing is being taken quite seriously these days and perhaps the pressures of the current financial climate may be one of the driving factors. As always those who are serious about being one of the best in this market will always dominate.

Most serious hand finishing framers can easily up stage almost all factory finished mouldings and that includes top name factory finished mouldings, but it takes time, practice, technique, know how and attitude!

BTW, don't forget, there's a serious demand and following for high class hand finished frames. It's a very "in" thing in these days!

Graysalchemy wrote:
rep was a bit put out .......

Good!

Suppliers can't complain of no orders when they don't sell what people need.

I can't remember the last time I actually bought factory-finished moulding intended to use it as is.

Either: The moulding I want just isn't available.

Or: I'm not going to order a pack of moulding for a small job when I can make it from odd scraps lying about.

Not everyone's cup of tea granted. Depends on the type of work you tend to get.
But there is great satisfaction from doing frames that are truly unique.

GeoSpectrum wrote:Who would you say has the best range of unfinised mouldings? I'm not getting much inspiration from Mainline and Wessex.

Rose and Hollis are the market leaders in unfinished mouldings but they are a fairly low key supplier with no website to browse. Their unfinished moulding catalogue is a series of line drawings showing the profiles. You will have to give them a call to get a catalogue sent. Details below:

Unit G02-G08 Belgravia Workshops, Marlborough Road, London, N19 4NF 020 7272 5551

I had a look at it on friday, I will ring them and get a copy. I have been using Norfolk moulding as well, but some of the arqadia profiles are still cheaper with the discount I get so I think I will have to use a combination.

I use Rose and Hollis, Simons, Norfolk Mouldings and I have some old stock from Arqadia mostly of a nice reverse moulding which they discontinued a few years ago. When I get the time, I will post a list of some of my favourite hand finishing mouldings and also those which I like to stack together.

As the mouldings will be the main cost in a hand finished frame, there should be some real awareness in your moulding choices. Not only in terms of the cost to you, but the scope for profit in the finished job, which is all about appearance and perceived value. You also don't need to stock a massive range of mouldings!

The cost of paints and other finishing materials should be low. Expensive paints are not neccessary at all, I mix many of my own using paints from B & Q. Ask someone who has been on my course, they will tell you! It's easy!