The Framers Forum

Dermot wrote:getting elected and then you can change things.........it’s really quite simple in a democracy

Simple, it is certainly not! Changing laws is not simple. One person trying to change laws would be like trying to push a pile of dog poo up hill with a pointed stick!

Some things are easier said than done but that doesn't mean that if we are not happy with a service we are paying through the nose for, we can't have a good old moan and take the p out of it too.

Here are some things easier said than done- wish I could find a video - Youtube hasn't got it.

Roboframer wrote: wish I could find a video - Youtube hasn't got it.

They have you know!

Superb Spit - I searched for those exact words too.

When I was a boy Nanny was either my grandmother or a live in babysitter.

The modern concept of 'nanny' as per subject is a recent innovation, seemingly perpetuated over the period of our beloved New Labour government.

Fundamental changes over the years, which Dermot highlighted : votes for women, speed laws, dangerous chemical substances and equal pay for women (fairly recent in some workplaces), the anti-slavery bill, etc., I would put down to pure improvement and common sense; and to be heralded by all. Hardly a case of nanny statism I would have thought.

Maybe the powers that be in Eire get it right all the time, but here in England it is different. Something contra every week.

It's the silly and petty restrictions by central government, but more by local councils that are open for discussion on this forum. Plans for the populace are ill-conceived and not thought through properly, hence the criticism and ribaldry.

A council near us had plans to charge on street parking - OK- but not overnight as well for heavens sake. We soon quoshed that one. People power.

Ahhhh, don't forget the kiss principle. I just searched on 'python how to'

And while you're there, look at 'how to defend yourself against fresh fruit"

Many on this forum are, what shall we say, of more mature years, and will probably I hope remember when they were small boys and did what small boys did.

Climb trees, and no we didn't break our necks.

Knock conkers off trees with sticks and play the game when the season came round.

Scrump apples - thieving little bastards.

Make bows and arrows and have hours of endless fun.

Light campfires and cook fry ups in the corner of a farmers field.

Cycled or walked for miles in the Purbeck countryside on our own.

All these activities, (these were just a few), on reflection, had an element of risk, but it was character forming in its own way and very natural.

We were free.

Ahh the days - young boys - jumpers for goalposts - isn't it - hmmm? Marvellous!

(Ron Manager)

Roboframer wrote:... cannot enforce our restriction ...as the signs do not correspond with where the traffic order says they should be..... a job ... that an 8 year old could sort out "

How daft, and enormously frustrating for you both! From what Bill Henry has shared with us about local - direct - democracy in his part of the world, I could not see such a ludicrous scenario occurring there.

Dermot commented earlier on the issues of speeding/drink-driving on the roads. I think that people would far prefer to see governments taking greater steps to enforce speed limits than directing energy towards ensuring that the local parish church complies with the legal requirement to display a "No Smoking" sign. There is a lot to be said for adhering to the "spirit" rather than the "letter" of some laws. (No pun intended.) I also concur with your view, John, that public funds can be grossly misused, and IMO there should be greater accountability to the electorate for use of tax income.

In response to earlier posts, Dermot cited excellent examples of positive legislative changes, viz: anti-slavery laws (equal gender rights for pay, and women's voting rights. I think that it is worthy of comment that all of these changes came about in response to pressure for change from respective electorates and were all meritorious, and had force for good in our daily lives.

On EC Legislation:

-Ban on cages for battery hens / Ban on items with cat or dog fur / Ban on potentially faulty aircraft flying over EC airspace.

These all have merit, and make sense from a humane/safety perspective. Well done, Brussels, I say! Restricting use of toxic substances such as mercury make sense from an environmental and health perspective, although taking it as far as barometers is possibly bordering on overkill when contrasted with the volume of such pollutants produced by heavy industry; and if current trends are followed, it might be a reasonable bet that "the small guy" will be subject to stronger enforcement efforts than the "giants of industry." Some support for this viewpoint could come from the fact that a mercury ban will be phased in for barometer manufacturers, but to the best of my knowledge its use will still be permissible in the manufacture of electronic parts.

Dermot wrote:.... Put your money up and your career on hold as all politicians have to do and stand for election....

Putting one's career on hold, I agree might be necessary (unless, perhaps, one has made the decision to change career and enter the political field full-time).

Putting one's money up? Yes. If one wishes to run for election as an independent. However, unless I'm much mistaken, I believe that would-be representatives in the UK, USA and Ireland running under a "party" flag receive significant campaign funding through donations, and that there are potentially significant financial rewards for representatives in the higher echelons of government.

Dermot wrote:....... getting elected and then you can change things.........it’s really quite simple in a democracy

I concur with the comments of Sarah and Ormond that, with our current political structure, it is by no means a simple thing for an individual to effect legislative change. Indeed, I would go as far as to say it's nigh on impossible. And IMO, in a "true democracy", it should be possible for citizens to drive legislative changes without being elected: representatives should represent.

... and now for something completely different.

Road sign "for the people, by the people."

Don't mess wit da moggy! (Just couldn't resist this one )


Got to be said!

Quote from website "justaddwater.dk":

"I would love to change the world. They just won't give me the source code."

A few years ago, a small town in the State of Maine (New Hampshire’s neighbor), decided that in their infinite, collective wisdom, they would not only ban the sale of mercury thermometers within its borders, but, in an effort to “green” up the environment, would call for a voluntary recall of said toxic instruments.

A local pharmacy (apothecary?) offered a reduced price on all battery operated replacements. (Still more expensive than one could have obtained on-line, though.)

The town council collected hundreds of the old glass, mercury thermometers and congratulated themselves in a job well done. In a publicized news event, they ceremoniously buried these thermometers in the town land fill. Ah, good choice!

So, what once were small pockets of isolated blobs of mercury safely encased in glass, which were spread about and safely kept in people’s medicine cabinets and bedside tables, now became a concentration of the silvery metal leaching into the ground once the bulldozers broke the glass tubes by plowed the thermometers into the land fill.

Heaven help us from well meaning,“expert” politicians

You couldn't script it, Bill!! As the saying goes, "A little knowledge...."

Moglet wrote:

"I would love to change the world. They just won't give me the source code."

Genius, Prospero! Wonderful thing about forums. All the hidden talent!!
______

Seems G W does have a handle on some things....

"Oftentimes, we live in a processed world -- you know, people focus on the process and not results."
--George w. Bush

Washington, DC
05/29/2003

Out of the mouths of chimps.....

( I just couldn't resist...)

{Please note that this is posted in a genuine spirit of humour, and is as much to do with taking the mickey out of corporate multinationals as it is out of local councils et al! }

Dermot wrote:[it’s really quite simple in a democracy

Indeed! But you need to live in one first!

sarah wrote: Indeed! But you need to live in one first!

Please Sarah..............that's taking it to far.........I know the society we live in is not perfect nor will it ever be...........but you are blowing any credibility you have with me if you think we don’t live in a democracy ...............please I’m getting a headache ............with the nonsense that this thread has descended to..............I truly had you tagged as having more sense than you have just displayed....................please, please, please........

Dermot wrote:.... in a democracy....

Genuine question, Dermot: when you use the term "democracy," are you referring to "pure democracy" or a different type?