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Dermot wrote:
Please Sarah..............that's taking it to far.........I know the society we live in is not perfect nor will it ever be...........but you are blowing any credibility you have with me if you think we don’t live in a democracy ...............please I’m getting a headache ............with the nonsense that this thread has descended to..............I truly had you tagged as having more sense than you have just displayed....................please, please, please........
Dermot I apologise if I have offended you and your beliefs.
But, after studying politics for a few years, I have become quite disillusioned with any talk of us living in a democratic society. Especially when those with money can, and very often do, buy their way out of situations that anyone else would be in serious trouble for.
And remember I live in Northern Ireland where politics is a comedy subject rather than a serious way to achieve anything.
Again I apologise if I have caused any offense, just my cynical nature I guess.
sarah wrote:
Dermot I apologise if I have offended you and your beliefs.
And remember I live in Northern Ireland where politics is a comedy subject rather than a serious way to achieve anything.
Sarah................first of all no need to apologise..........I’m a big boy and I can take most things....
I’m sorry that you feel as you do about the democratic political system in your part of the world............
From my stand point I think that with respect to the last good number of years that the political system and how democracy has been shown to worked in the North is one of the best examples worldwide ever in history of how a good democracy can progress and work............
I think that in most if not all area the politicians in the North over the last good number of years have shown extraordinary courage and resilience ...............and are an example to the rest of the world of how democracy can progress when there is a true will to make changes...and how things can work in a democratic society .........
As I said earlier, Dermot, it's a genuine question. From a political science perspective, there are different styles of democracy. For example, the local government model that Bill describes earlier in the thread would be an example of a "consensus" or possibly "direct" democracy." The party-political systems of government in the UK and Ireland would more closely resemble a "representative democracy." There are significant functional variations between the different styles.
I must admit that I have been bandying about the term "democracy" somewhat ambiguously in the thread. So, to clarify, I use the term "democracy" to refer to a direct, highly participatory, system of government; very close to the Athenian model.
In essence, I am seeking to understand what the term "democracy" means to you personally. I hope I've expressed my meaning better this time.
........Áine JGF SGF FTB .Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.
IMO we already have a participatory form of Democracy in the UK, the only problem being that the vast majority of the people have absolutely no interest in participating, leaving pressure groups, the media and pollsters to highly participate and greatly influence government policy and even policing.
This is not entirely the fault of governments or legislators, but mostly down to the great British Apathy which we were so proud of and are now reaping the benefits of.
You wonder how far government can push things already we are threatened with having our property destroyed if we dont pay our taxes.
(the car crushing ads.) what's next bulldosing our houses if we don't pay our local taxes.
Not familar with these ads. Do tell more (I only have Irish terrestrial stations).
__________
Edited to add:
FWIW, just wanted to suggest philosophical discussions may be better in a separate thread? Then this one could go back to celebrating the Topic itself, in all its glorious daftness?
........Áine JGF SGF FTB .Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.
The car crushing ad involves a young guy coming out of a restaurant with his girlfriend looking very happy after a pleasant evening they are just about to get into their smart new car when an invisible crusher crushes the car to a small square shape and the voice over tells you that the government can now crush your car if you dont pay the road tax.
Pretty sinister and scary especially as they are being really sneaky and using invisible stuff!
Maybe the next ad will have the guy's granny sitting in the back of the car waiting on a lift home!
Moglet wrote:In essence, I am seeking to understand what the term "democracy" means to you personally.
It not what I think democracy is it is what it is and always has been...........after that I really don’t understand what you are getting at.......... or are you just trying to create something that is not there......................
Oxford English Dictionary
democracy
/dimokr si/
• noun (pl. democracies) 1 a form of government in which the people have a voice in the exercise of power, typically through elected representatives. 2 a state governed in such a way. 3 control of a group by the majority of its members.
I am often struck by the way our species can fail to learn from the past. For example, Thomas Aquinas defined a valid law as being one that:
* is in keeping with Reason
* is established by a proper authority
* is for the purpose of achieving good
* is properly communicated to all
I think that some of the objections to "Nanny State" laws have arisen due to flagrant disreagard for point number one. Thomas Aquinas came up with the above in the 13th century. So much for progress.....
BTW, would this count as a 'reasonable' No Smoking sign?
........Áine JGF SGF FTB .Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.
My son is working as a temporary lifeguard/leisure attendant in the local recreation centre, until he moves down to Plymouth to pastures new.
The latest rules drawn up by the Institute of Sports and Recreations Management are as follows: -
Swimming pools must not give or sell armbands to children because the health chiefs say they are dangerous. Blowing up inflatables by mouth could spread germs, and unseen punctures could lead to accidents. So the ISRM have called for the introduction of a ' hygiene and cleansing' programme to counter the risk of infection posed by parents blowing up armbands. It also wants daily inspections to check for faulty valves and punctures.
Parents are able to bring in armbands, but poolside staff cannot touch them for risk of cross-infection.
Chris has had to fill in more and more pages of Risk Assessment forms under all the latest guidelines and to his relief has just one more week to go before he leaves - and it can't come soon enough.
I have seen one of these forms, and it makes your full IRS tax return a walk in the park !!
foxyframer wrote:
Parents are able to bring in armbands, but poolside staff cannot touch them for risk of cross-infection.
Is anyone actually allowed to breath in these places or is breathing apparatus used while on the premises???
Makes me think of that show about a "recreation centre" that was on UK TV last year. Chris somebody was the star on it. Sounds like that show might not have been fiction after all!
On reading your post, Foxy, I couldn't help but remember the signs that used to be in public pools when I was a young wan:
"We don't swim in your lavatory, so please don't .... (etc. etc.) "
Not trying to lower the tone, btw. It's just that in light of above type of sign being used (may not be nowadays - haven't swam in a pool in years) it makes what your son has had to put up with all the more ridiculous to me.
........Áine JGF SGF FTB .Briseann an dúchas trí shuiligh an chuit.
That was the Brittas Empire starring Chris Barrie and the film location was the recreation centre at Ringwood in the New Forest, Hampshire, where our Chris sometimes works when they are short staffed.
Now truth has become stranger than fiction.
The place is full of don't notices Aine and I for one would never swim in a recreation centre. A little knowledge....!
I know this is reviving an old thread but this is the right place.
Make sure you have a couple of minutes handy, its a long one!
THE WORLD VERSION:
The squirrel works hard in the withering heat all
summer long, building and improving his house and
laying up supplies for the winter.
The grasshopper thinks he's a fool, and laughs and
dances and plays the summer away.
Come winter, the squirrel is warm and well fed.
The shivering grasshopper has no food or shelter,
so he dies out in the cold.
THE END
THE U.K. VERSION:
The squirrel works hard in the withering heat all
summer long, building his house and laying up
supplies for the winter.
The grasshopper thinks he's a fool, and laughs and
dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the
squirrel is warm and well fed.
A social worker finds the shivering grasshopper,
calls a press conference and demands to know why
the squirrel should be allowed to be warm and well
fed while others less fortunate, like the
grasshopper, are cold and starving.
The BBC shows up to provide live coverage of the
shivering grasshopper; with cuts to a video of the
squirrel in his comfortable warm home with a table
laden with food.
The British press informs people that they should
be ashamed that in a country of such wealth, this
poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so, while
others have plenty.
The Labour Party, Greenpeace, Animal Rights and
The Grasshopper Council of GB demonstrate in front
of the squirrel's house.
The BBC, interrupting a cultural festival special
from Notting Hill with breaking news, broadcasts a
multi cultural choir singing "We Shall Overcome".
Ken Livingstone rants in an interview with Trevor
McDonald that the squirrel got rich off the backs
of grasshoppers, and calls for an immediate tax
hike on the squirrel to make him pay his "fair
share" and increases the charge for squirrels to
enter inner London .
In response to pressure from the media, the
Government drafts the Economic Equity and
Grasshopper Anti Discrimination Act, retroactive
to the beginning of the summer.
The squirrel's taxes are reassessed. He is taken
to court and fined for failing to hire
grasshoppers as builders for the work he was doing
on his home and an additional fine for contempt
when he told the court the grasshopper did not
want to work.
The grasshopper is provided with a council house,
financial aid to furnish it and an account with a
local taxi firm to ensure he can be socially
mobile. The squirrel's food is seized and re
distributed to the more needy members of society,
in this case the grasshopper.
Without enough money to buy more food, to pay the
fine and his newly imposed retroactive taxes, the
squirrel has to downsize and start building a new
home.
The local authority takes over his old home and
utilises it as a temporary home for asylum seeking
cats who had hijacked a plane to get to Britain as
they had to share their country of origin with
mice. On arrival they tried to blow up the airport
because of Britain's apparent love of dogs.
The cats had been arrested for the international
offence of hijacking and attempted bombing but
were immediately released because the police fed
them pilchards instead of salmon whilst in
custody.
Initial moves to then return them to their own
country were abandoned because it was feared they
would face death by the mice. The cats devise and
start a scam to obtain money from people's credit
cards.
A Panorama special shows the grasshopper finishing
up the last of the squirrel's food, though spring
is still months away, while the council house he
is in, crumbles around him because he hasn't
bothered to maintain the house.
He is shown to be taking drugs. Inadequate
government funding is blamed for the grasshopper's
drug 'illness'.
The cats seek recompense in the British courts for
their treatment since arrival in UK .
The grasshopper gets arrested for stabbing an old
dog during a burglary to get money for his drugs
habit. He is imprisoned but released immediately
because he has been in custody for a few weeks.
He is placed in the care of the probation service
to monitor and supervise him. Within a few weeks
he has killed a guinea pig in a botched robbery.
A commission of enquiry, that will eventually cost
£10,000,000 and state the obvious, is set up.
Additional money is put into funding a drug
rehabilitation scheme for grasshoppers and legal
aid for lawyers representing asylum seekers is
increased.
The asylum-seeking cats are praised by the
government for enriching Britain's multicultural
diversity and dogs are criticised by the
government for failing to befriend the cats.
The grasshopper dies of a drug overdose. The usual
sections of the press blame it on the obvious
failure of government to address the root causes
of despair arising from social inequity and his
traumatic experience of prison.
They call for the resignation of a minister.
The cats are paid a million pounds each because
their rights were infringed when the government
failed to inform them there were mice in the
United Kingdom.
The squirrel, the dogs and the victims of the
hijacking, the bombing, the burglaries and
robberies have to pay an additional percentage on
their credit cards to cover losses, their taxes
are increased to pay for law and order and they
are told that they will have to work beyond 65
because of a shortfall in government funds.
THE END
Paul.
Alcohol does not make you FAT
- it makes you LEAN ….
against tables, chairs, floors, walls and ugly people.
