The Framers Forum

Since I have almost exhausted my previous stocks of non-Artcare foamboards and other backing board materials, I am thinking now is a good time to switch to Artcare backing boards.

So I wondered what thickness boards others are using and since I like using the Fletcher-Terry glazer's points, which are shorter than the normal framers points whether anyone has found any problem using them with foamboard.

I use artcare 3mm FC as standard - buy the 60x40" - it's cheaper per sq ft.

Get youself a pneumatic point driver - the Omer is great - and use the semi-rigid tabs - more area. Or buy two guns, one for flexi/semi rigid and one for rigid.

Free yourself from Fletcher-Terry and you'll recover the cost of the gun(s)

Glaziers points? Uh-Oh!!!

I use Artcare 5mm as standard, but use 3mm for small frames. I like the extra stiffness of the 5mm for most frame sizes.

I tried one of those Omer guns, but sent it back. Didn't like the feel of it and it was $990. The Cassese one feels a little better and was just under $600. I also have a Jumbo Cassese.

I don't think semi rigid tabs are available down here or if they are, then the ones I tried were almost as flexible as any others!

To date I have never used 3mm foamboard so I thought I would ask the question and having started of with an incredibly large stock of 5mm which came from two framers which closed down, (it's taken 3 years to use it all), I never needed to think about 3mm.

With regard to point guns we don't have compressed air yet, so I'll be sticking to the manual ones for a while longer. Thanks for the answers!

Not your average framer wrote: With regard to point guns we don't have compressed air yet, so I'll be sticking to the manual ones for a while longer. Thanks for the answers!

Wow, no compressor!
I just couldn't cope without one to drive my chopper, double mitre saw, vee nailer, CMC, two tab guns two staplers, one bradder and the air blower that gets rid of all the dust out of frames!

I would be lost without a compressor! I know some framers don't have them, but once you have one, you will wish you got it earlier because many air tools save you so much time.

Do try it!

osgood wrote: I would be lost without a compressor! I know some framers don't have them, but once you have one, you will wish you got it earlier because many air tools save you so much time.

Do try it!

One day! It's on the list, along with the CMC, etc.

Compressors don't cost anywhere near as much as a CMC
Down here they can be bought for a few hundred dollars! That's probably about three and a half pounds in your money!

Ormond,

I'll let you know when I get one.

I struggled with a manual underpinner until we moved into this shop - the first shop had no room for a workshop as well; I was a garage framer, with a shop!


If you have no compressor, you have no pneumatic underpinner - I don't know how I ever managed without one - apart from having to go "PTSST TUNG PTSSST TUNG" myself - incase any passing framers thought I never had one.

Then I extended the airline and added the driver - what a result!

Just do it!

O.K., John and Ormond,

I give in. I look like having a little spare cash during the next month or two, if nothing goes wrong in the meantime, so the compressor is on the shopping list.

However, I have some questions:

Does the Omer gun which fires the rigid points, fire them in flat against the back? I know the flexitab one doesn't, because I used one at the place I used to work. If it doesn't fire then in flat, how do you get around it? I can't imagine going to all the trouble of bending rigid tabs down flat.

I have also tried the semi-rigid tabs, but if you can't get them in flat against the backing board, bending them down flat doesn't work very well because they tend to spring back a little after being bent down. Is there a trick to this?

I don't know about the rigid tab gun - I've only got the one that fires flexi and semi rigid and yes, they stick up just a bit and I press them flat with the handle of my wire snippers.

Ring Lion (Birmingham) and speak to the technical help guy - he's very good - I would hope that the rigid ones do lay flat - if not there is a gun that fires them flat, but it's twice the price.

Not your average framer wrote:O.K., John and Ormond,

I give in. I look like having a little spare cash during the next month or two, if nothing goes wrong in the meantime, so the compressor is on the shopping list.

YaaaaaaaaaaaaY.......you wont be sorry!

It matters not one whit whether the tabs are fired in flat or not!
When firing, the gun needs to be held up at a slight angle so the tab is fired slightly down hill. Then the tab can be pushed down. In the late 80's when I changed from a narrow crown stapler to a tab gun, I invented a very special tool for this purpose.

I don't have a patent on this complicated device, so it would be OK if you wanted to copy the design or even modify the design to suit your own taste. I also gave it a very technical name because I thought that would be appropriate. It is called a "stick". (See photo below)



This is the tool in use:




Seriously, don't worry about the flatness! They will spring back a little, but you just need to learn to live with that. Don't jump to the conclusion that it will be a lot of trouble to bend the tabs down...it won't be. I've bent several hundred thousand of them now and none of them were any trouble!

The Omer gun that I had and sent back had a small air operated plunger that pressed the tab down flat, but in my opinion it was not all that good. I found that I could press the tabs down better with my special invention.

When you get your compressor, you will be able to buy more and more air operated toys.....ooops, I mean tools, that will help to make your work much more efficient!

I spoke to a local supplier some time ago and he quoted me for a compressor used in dental surgeries, it's so quiet in most situations you can't hear it at all. I can't remember the price, but that's the one I always planned to go for.

I don't think it would be ideal for heavier use with an underpinner, but at present I'm not thinking that far ahead. Also being small it will fit into my tiny workshop without too much fuss.

I would like a few more air tools, a narrow crown stapler, a wide crown stapler (for canvases) and a narrow guage brad gun. I don't think I will get them all as quickly as I would like, but no doubt my resulting improved productivity will help pay for them.

you would be looking for a "Bambi" air compressor, - we have one of the old school big bright yellow ones - served us reliably for the past 14 or so years. just make sure you have a contingency plan in place for when you need to get it serviced.

The bambi is good - got one with the mountcutter. When it's first fired up, it's no louder than an old fridge while it's filling, apart from an annoyingly loud click when it switches off when it is ready - makes me jump every time. After that, I've never heard a peep out of it.

Just done my first 'proper' job with the mountcutter, BTW (proper as in someone asking me for something rather than me doing practice mounts). A nice triple mount with v-grooves, do you think? Nope. I've cut a load of panels for a tardis console I know some of you have been asked to frame some strange things, but how many can say they've made parts for a time machine?

Not your average framer wrote: it's so quiet in most situations you can't hear it at all.

NYAF,

Beware, beware!
Silent compressors have a very, very low output rate of compressed air. You will be dramatically limiting what you will be able to use it for!
It will be OK for a tab gun and an air blower, but would struggle to run machines like choppers. When you add double mitre saws, CMC's etc. that will consume more compressed air.

I have looked at these many times and personally would not buy one, even with your money! I would need several of the highest capacity ones to equal the output of my old nearly worn out 12 cfm compressor. It would be a complete waste of money in my situation where I have so many uses for compressed air.

The amount of air that a dentist uses doesn't come anywhere near what you will require. Especially once you realise what compressed air can be used for!

Please do some research as to the capacity those machines output per minute and also into what capacity you think you might need in the next few years. It will disappoint you seriously if you can only use it for a tab gun and a blower. Maybe not right now, but it will later!

I always believe that it is important when buying any equipment to get higher specifications than what I think I need at the time of purchase. I have proven this to be correct every time!

Lion tech help desk.

Check the screwfix catalogue as well.

Underpinning done to its best effect needs to be pneumatic - ash ceases to be a pain in the ash Oak is OK. Get something that will cope with anticipated needs and not something that may need an upgrade.


I have the old yellah (Bambi twin compressor) too - a real workhorse.

Simons - another company that can do more than just sell it to you.

Hi Guys,

Some feedback.

Spoke to Lion today - The rigid Omer gun does not not fire points flat to the back, you still have to bend them flat yourself after firing them in.

There's no confirmation of this, but it seems likely that the rigid tabs are the same material as the semi-rigid, but just an extra 50% or so thicker.

I'm getting both flex- and rigid guns and won't bother with semi-rigid tabs. I think the extra security of the rigid tabs is worth the extra gun's cost.

Thanks for your advice about the compressor, unfortunately the space for a bigger compressor is a problem and currently I think it is going in the front area of my shop, so noise is a big issue. Things are not decided yet and I may still get the larger one if I can solve the noise and space problems.

I would love to get confirmation of the extra thickness of the "rigid" tabs. The "rigid" tabs that I have seen down here have only been a few thousandths of an inch thicker than the others and didn't seem to be very much stiffer at all.

I'm surprised that you need two guns.

Whatever compressor you get will be a great advantage to you. If you get a silent one with the largest output of air you can it will be OK for most things except a pneumatic chopper. They take an enormous amount of air.

Some people down here put their compressors outside their shops in a steel mesh cage to keep the noise levels down inside their shops.

osgood wrote:I would love to get confirmation of the extra thickness of the "rigid" tabs.

Some people down here put their compressors outside their shops in a steel mesh cage to keep the noise levels down inside their shops.

Hi Ormond,

The rigid tabs are in the Lion catalogue (a UK company) and are only suitable for the rigid tab gun which takes a 0.5mm thick tab.

Unfortunately, I don't have any outside place to put the compressor and I'm having trouble fitting it inside too! My shop just doesn't have any spare space. Not enough room to swing a mouse!