The Framers Forum

Just wondering how you go about chasing unpaid invoices. Do you demand payment on collection? Or before you deliver? Also how do you go about documenting (for tax purposes etc) money that you SHOULD have been paid, but hasn't yet been given to you?

I will admit it's not a HUGE problem at the moment, but even the odd invoice being written off is annoying. Chasing it legally seems like it would be a lot of effort and expense.. but if they refuse to pay & you've already finishing the product then whether you give it to them or not, time and material has still been wasted!!

Nothing leave here unless it's paid for, I've done it a couple of times (same company) first time took 8 weeks, even though I had 30days on the invoice, second time I changed that to 14 Days they till took over 6 weeks,so after many phone calls, I just phoned them and told them my lawyer was on his way to file in the small claims court at 9.30 in the morning, had a cheque arrive the next day, goes without saying I don't do any work for them any more.
So nothing leaves without payment

There is the three-stage PNS system.


Polite.

Nasty.

Solictitor.

Most of the time the P works.

Polite reminders till month 5. Then I say that legally I am allowed to sell their framed art to recoup my losses. Worked so far.

Better still tell them you have sold it and they'll be round like a shot.

I have been owed a lot by customers and never got it out of them even using solicitors and debt collectors. In fact i have found that he solicitors and debt collectors are just as much Robbing B*stards as the non payers promising you the world and then not delivering. I now only give credit to established customers and keep a close eye on them. Anyone else deposit and payment on collection.

forget the money chasers try this and do it yourself

https://www.gov.uk/make-court-claim-for-money/overview

Same as Alistair, we have been taken for a fair bit in the past and now only give credit to established or trusted customers.
We only give unlimited credit to government funded company's like schools, this can still be a pain getting money but they do always pay in the end.

Thanks guys.

One thing about selling the product, though - what about if we've framed something valuable like, I don't know, a wedding certificate or something (just an example) or even something valuable that belongs to the customer.

Do your clients sign anything to the effect that they can't get it back unless they pay?? Because technically the item inside is theirs, but I'm not sure where we'd stand legally!

The whole idea of going to court seems a bit daunting to me, but I don't know what the actual experience would be like..

I'm the same as others, nothing leaves here without being paid for except on a few rare occasions when it's a trusted customer.
That said I once had a £500 bill outstanding from a football team that had been no problem any time before. Seems they had a new treasurer but the chairperson was extremely apologetic and ended up paying it in himself.
I wouldn't worry about holding onto something that someone has given to you to frame. You have to keep it for 6 months but then you can sell it to recoup your losses.

some of our orders run into 10k + most large company's will dictate terms, you either agree or loose the order.

I have always had problems chasing money through the no claims court. You can get a judgement fine but that isn't your money. And if someone just returns all the papers without opening them then it is a right royal pain in the arse getting the papers re sent. If someone has a history of non payment then they are going to know every trick in the book not to pay, and quite frankly the law doesn't protect the likes of you and I

I agree with IFGL above you have to give credit if you are a commercial framer and that involves a great deal of risk, but if you don't you don't get the work.

It will obviously depend on your business model.
I'm a bespoke picture framer so most of my customers are individuals with 2 or 3 frames each.
I'm still waiting on my first £10k order.