The Framers Forum

Hello all, I am attempting to get the above sized map which has been printed on thin paper to lay flat on the backing board without success. I can get it it lay flat without any ripples without the glass , but once the glass is replaced it ripples. Shall I ask customers to get it laminated ?

Leyburncreativeframe wrote:Hello all, I am attempting to get the above sized map which has been printed on thin paper to lay flat on the backing board without success. I can get it it lay flat without any ripples without the glass , but once the glass is replaced it ripples. Shall I ask customers to get it laminated ?

Btw I have been using tape to fix it on the outer edges and used a roller as applying the tape..

I would use frame spacers to separate the glass from the map. That way you retain the character of the paper map, wrinkles included.

Thank you for your swift reply, but the map has no character, it is a new print....

It sounds like there is no window mount or spacers, and the glass is just sitting on the paper.
If so the ripples will just get worse over time.
The paper these maps is printed on is particularly thin.
Asking the customer to get it laminated is an option, or getting it stuck onto a board is another.
I don't totally understand how you are fixing it, using tape with a roller, maybe a bit more information will help.

hello, I have laid it onto the backing board ( conservation ) and have fixed it down with tape along the edges whilst using a roller to smooth it out so ideally there would be no ripples in sight... no I have not mounted it or used spacers..

I don't think using frame spacers will work, I have a print in at the moment with a similar dilemma, I have tried the spacer method, just secret hinges to float it and it won't lie flat. I have ended up board mounting it which i will then float in the box frame. As I pointed out to the customer paper is a living breathing entity (well ok its not) and as such it absorbs water and then expands and contracts with changing environmental conditions. You aren't going to tame it with out sticking it down IMHO which does go against the grain with me but sometimes there is no option if the client wants it flat. Just trapping it in a frame at the edges will mean that there is nowhere for the expansion to go so it will just cockle.

Graysalchemy wrote: it absorbs water and then expands and contracts with changing environmental conditions.

Hygroscopic

Spacers against paper will cause buckling. I'd dry-mount this, spacers or not.

Anyone who has ever painted on watercolour paper will tell you that.

Paper also has to be made with the right moisture content for the market it is being sold into as well because of its hygroscopic nature.

That's 3 for dry mounting, don't apply any heat though, I think I have read the inks used on these maps don't like it, I am assuming your map is rolled and not folded.

Hello, yes the map was rolled. I have returned the framed map to the customer but put it onto two pieces of artback conservation board which stabilized the whole thing and there were less ripples. I have advised them to think about laminating and then framing. The whole thing would then weigh less too!

Cheers for all of your thoughts..

If the customer wants glass, don't laminate it. Just stick it down to a board and frame it with spacers to lift the glass off the surface a tad. As mentioned, some of these maps can be heat intolerant so maybe a cold-roller press like a Jetmounter is the weapon of choice. If you don't have access to one I'm sure someone here will help point you to the right place.

Without being over patronising, I suspect you are a relative newbee in the trade. One thing to learn is that there is no way a piece of glass is going to hold a thin piece of paper flat. Quite the reverse, as you observed. Restrict the edges and it will ripple. Bigger the piece the bigger the waves. Paper will expand and contract with changes in humidity and the forces exerted are considerable. I used to stretch watercolour paper by soaking a taping to a board. A full sheet will grow about half an inch when wringing wet. And will actually bend a sheet of 3/4" blockboard while drying.

Hi i have just done one exactly the same, 100x89cm thermally printed so hot press is a no go, I bonded it to 2mm laminated mount card and then framed with 3mm perspex, looks stunning in an oak frame, customer is more than happy, so much so i have about another 15 to do for them. All new prints which are all rolled so no creases.

nice one, what did you bond it to the card with?

and yes I am a relative newbie, I have framed this size of map before but the paper was much heavier .. and had no problem.

Hot Press Double Sided Mount Film (M3174) PMDS41082 1040mm wide, and a 43" wide Jet Mounter to apply the pressure.

The card is a 2mm thick laminated for extra strength, and it has a very smooth flat surface making it ideal for mounting too, the card came from wessex.

I used to quite happily dry mount OS maps, until someone on the forum mentioned the warning about possible colour shift issues when heat is applied. I don't know if dry mounting will ruin the map, but I stopped dry mounting them and use my manually operated version of Hot Press Jet Mounter. Unfortunately the rollers on this machine are only 36 inches wide and therefore only just wide enough to cope with a job this size.

Although there is very little margin for error, if I am very careful to get everything lined up straight before running it through the rollers, it seems to work o.k. I have not had any disasters doing this, but it is a difficult thing to do and I prefer to have an extra pair of hands to help me when I am doing this, just to be safe. I've not used a motorised machine, but I would guess that an extra pair of hands might be a good thing with one of those too!

I usually mount OS maps onto Simons BACK/10, which works o.k., but sometimes the couriers bash the corners of the delivery carton and it's not always easy to spot minor ripples in the surface of the board. As a result I carefully inspect the board before cutting it to size and it's to late after you have all ready cut the board to size. I think that you can guess how I know this.

Cheers, your advice and suggestions are gratefully received...