Dibond mounting, Hotpress or Jetmounter?

[Chris_h]

I am looking at mounting Inkjet prints onto dibond. I got a Jetmounter last year and did one of the Wessex jetmounter training days. Didn't bother with the vacuum press training part as I wasn't planning on getting one, but have now managed to pick up a cheap Hgp2 press.

I am now looking at mounting onto Dibond and wondered if people use the press for this or does everyone just use a Jetmounter. I have tried it with the Jetmounter before but wondered if it would be a little easier in the vacuum press.

I have tried laminating a picture onto display board and can see the orange peel problem, does this come from the board or the glue in the laminate? Also to reduce this problem am I better using a really smooth gloss paper or is it OK to use a smooth matt paper?

[caro]

Hi Chris I will be interested to hear what others say, but my initial thought is that the Orange peel effect is via vacuum/suction and the structure of the board, reducing pressure may help, and a more 'open' porous surface paper, which I guess smooth shiney papers do not have. Not sure what effect vacuum would have on dibond as ,does it have any porosity?

[prospero]

The orange peel effect comes from the board. It may appear smooth but it is actually full of hills and hollows. On a mounted glossy print it's going to show. Matt prints not so bad. The bumps are still there but are not highlighted by oblique light.
Some boards are worse than others but I have yet to find a dead smooth card surface.

[Chris_h]

Thank you both for your replies. I will have a go with a smooth matt paper and dibond later. Is it better to laminate the print first before drymounting to the dibond or is it better to dry mount the print to the dibond first?

[Graysalchemy]

If you are putting it in a vacuum press then I would drymount first then laminate, but I would use a foam blanket over the art work in both pressings as the dibond isn't permeable and you may get problems with air not getting out hence drymount to the dibond before putting the film on.

[Chris_h]

Many thanks Grays, another dumb question should I use a carrier board under the dibond when drymounting the print to the panel and should I use silicone release paper over the print before the foam?

[Graysalchemy]

Carrier board I am not familiar with. Silicon release no, the whole idea of the foam is to form a conduit through which the air can escape, just like when you use a film over the top. You can put the silicon release on top of the foam blanket.

[The Crofter]

The issue I had was the foam blanket was leaving a pattern on the print and I never managed a satisfactory press with gloss laminate. The process is quicker and easier with a Jetmounter.

[caro]

I thought silicon release was to stop glue getting on the glass or diaphragm.

[Graysalchemy]

It does but it also traps air between the print and the glass or what ever is on top. Not a problem if you are using a permeable base like card as the air gets sucked out through the card but that doesn't happen with Dibond. Same can be said for using an over laminate film because you are likely to have used an impermeable layer to bond the print to its substrate first then the air needs to go somewhere hence why over laminate films are perforated as that is the only way out for the air and thus the need for a blanket.

[Tyto]

For me the jetmounter would be the preferred option, but my first question would be why do you want to use dibond?
If your only reason for using dibond is to avoid the orange peel it might be worth trying white display board in the jetmounter.
I mount all of my own photos on hotpress white display board and although I did get some orange peel effect with the vacuum press (reducing the pressure helps) it is not a problem with the jetmounter.

Another problem I had with the vacuum press was silicone transfer from the silicone release film to the print when mounting gloss photos. Maybe I could have used the foam blanket to cover the print as grays suggested but then I would not have been able to see the pencil marks to check that the print is still in the correct position on the display board thereby losing one of the advantages of the glass top.

If you are only mounting one or two photos at a time you can have them done in the jetmounter before the hotpress is up to temp.

The hotpress is a great machine and I use it to make all of my coasters placemats and fridge magnets. Since buying a jetmounter last year I have used that to for all of my mounted and framed prints. I find this machine quicker and easier to use, it also gives me less issues with specks of dust damaging the print, I live on a farm and my workshop is in an old farm building so dust is a perennial problem.

[Chris_h]

For me the jetmounter would be the preferred option, but my first question would be why do you want to use dibond?

The reason for dibond is I am doing a dibond panel with sub frame on the back.

I have the Jetmounter so may just use that. I thought it might be a bit easier in the press as I can check for dust and pull back the laminate if I spot any before it goes in the press. The only thing I have used the press for so far is sealing canvas prints which makes life so much easier than varnishing for me.

Only done small A4 dibonds to test before on the Jetmounter and now have a 24 x 36 inch panel to try. My Jetmounter is an old machine with two speeds, fast and faster. I got it a year or so ago, had a try and then it's been under the workbench gathering dust ever since. I remember from using it last time I messed a few up along the way, mostly with the laminate side from dust or an air bubble / crease in the laminate. That's why I was wondering if they would be easier to laminate in the press and then mount with the jetmounter. I think I will just have to bite the bullet and give it a go in the jetmounter later.

[22rabbits]

The Dibond info PDF says not to heat transfer, it needs to be pressure mounted like the jetmounter

[mho]

When mounting to dibond I laminate the print in the vac press first then when the print is cold use the jet mounter to bond it to the dibond.

[Richard Photofusion]

Jet mounter all the way. If using a heat press with non permeable materials (gloss, dibond), there is a good chance of bubbles of air being trapped in the print. Not a pretty look.
Facemount adhesive applied to the DiBond, print laminated, then mounted to the DiBond, then trimmed.
Orange peel in varying degrees comes from the substrate, the adhesive, and the structure of the paper.
To reduce the dust issues, iso propyl alcohol to mop the substrate, and kill off static, lots of fresh tac cloths, to wipe the surfaces just prior to going through the rollers, a vacuum cleaner to get some of the dust from your workspace, and a mop to get some more of it.

If your workshop is below 15 Celsius, then the HotPress is very useful for warming up the dibond - just leave it on top of the press for 5 minutes. We use dibond for our carrier boards - a nicely pre-heated carrier board can be particularly useful to reduce silvering when laminating prints.

[Chris_h]

I had a little play last night, it looks OK but I want to have another go today to see if I can improve.

I tried a small test on an A3 sheet of dibond, mounted a matt print to it, laminated with gloss. Didn't work so well. As the board pre cut and I can't trim down I used a leader board, I remember I struggled working this way last time with creases where the boards meet. The print itself has what I assume is silvering or not enough pressure, very evident against the blacks with lots of air bubbles.

Next time for the large one, I just laminated the print first in the vacuum press before attaching to the dibond on the Jetmounter. I will have another go today and see if I can do it all on the Jetmounter. Does anyone else laminate the print first before attaching to a a panel?

[22rabbits]

I tried a small test on an A3 sheet of dibond, mounted a matt print to it, laminated with gloss. Didn't work so well. As the board pre cut and I can't trim down I used a leader board, I remember I struggled working this way last time with creases where the boards meet.

Chris, you can cut it down and get a good clean finish too. I thought i would need a keencut steeltrak but a guy in the signage industry gave me great help. To cut dibond get a sharp blade with a strong body for applying a little pressure (its only a a bit of pressure, i just dont trust the plastic bodies and sgemented blades) and a straight edge.

measure and make one consistent score line, like cutting glass. then just line the score with the edge of a bench and push to break, then just rock the other side to separate.

Its the rocking of the otherside that is most important and where a mistake can be made. rock it alot and gently till its nearly falling off.

[Chris_h]

Will give the cutting a try, many thanks for the tip.

I did it on the Jetmounter in the end, I think it took five pictures to get it right in the end though. Will have to spend some more time practising after Christmas.

[Chris_h]

So it's almost a year since I opened this topic and my jetmounter still does not get much use. I don't have any problem mounting an image to board, but I do still have problems laminating.

Everything I do is at least 30 x 20inchs size on the Jetmounter and the issue I have is I struggle with laminating without a crease at least somewhere in the image. One of the main problems I have seems to be the really bad curl as soon as the laminate comes off the roll. I don't tend to struggle with smaller items so much, but anything big I struggle with. Because of the curl in the laminate it's sometimes creased before I even get to tack the leading edge down, I fel like I need numerous pairs of hands just to keep everything flat. Has anyone gone from a JM26 to a larger machine such as the 44inch model so that you can run off the dispenser bars and if so did you find it much easier?

[Richard Photofusion]

Couple of things to look at (assuming that you've watched the hotpress videos on youtube)...
1: When laminating, correct, even pressure is of paramount importance. The way I set our JM44 up is to cut "keys" of the mounting material. So, if I'm using 3mm DiBond, I have a set (5) of keys, around 8x4", which are inserted, evenly spaced across the width of the nip of the rollers, with the rollers set higher than 3mm. Then bring down the rollers, until they rest on the keys. Should be able to get a small amount of wiggle on all the keys (and the same amount of movement). Feed the keys through, with your hands on the top roller, to check that when they exit, the top roller drops by the same amount on left and right side.
2: Make sure that your mounter is level - spirit level on the infeed table, adjust until machine is horizontal. Then check that top roller is also horizontal.
3:Cutting laminate from roll. Assuming that you have 24" roll of laminate, cut a piece 24x36" for your 20x30" print.. This way, when you peel back and fold over the first inch of backing paper, you don't suffer from the laminate creasing.
4: Carrier board. We use oversized sheets of DiBond as carrier boards, with their protective film still in place (this allows the adhesives of laminates and tapes to be released). Assuming that you are printing the materials that you are laminating, leave a 1-2" leader on the print, as well as atleast 5mm on L,R+tail end).
Place the print onto the carrier board, and using masking tape (it does have a purpose!!!), tape the left and right edges of the leader to the board, so that it is flat and square to the board, and the leader is held flat to the board. Now apply the exposed 1" of the laminate to the carrier board, just ahead of the leader of the print. Ensure that it has gone down flat and straight.
5: Present the carrier board to the laminator, and feed in until the folded back inch of the release paper is not quite in the nip.stop the feed, and manoeuvre the majority of the laminate over the top of the roller. Quick wipe of the print with a tac cloth, then peel back about 6" of the release, over the top of the roller, and start feeding the print through. you can probably "walk" the release off the laminate with your right hand, whilst wiping the print with a tac cloth with your left hand.

Once the print and carrier board have exited the laminator, run a razor blade through the laminate, between the print and the dibond (use a backed razor, and keep it parallel to the dibond, to avoid cutting the carrier board.

Lamination done.

For most photographers / low volume printers, it is easier to cut the laminate from the roll prior to mounting. If you are printing major lengths of prints for lamination, then you can run off a top roll, but it helps to rig up a roll of brown paper to run under the print, to help prevent getting laminate stuck to the rollers.

OK, hope that helps, now to stop procrastinating, and get back to building new benches for the mounting room.