Framing a document with a raised seal

[Rainbow]

I've been asked to frame a historic family document, about 165 years old. It's been in a frame with no mount, and hardboard at the back. It's pretty badly stained, but fortunately the paper isn't fragile. However, it has 3 raised seals, and one of them is almost falling off the bottom right hand edge of the document, ie there's not even a millimetre to slip beneath the mountboard.

The raised seals are quite worn and will fall within the thickness of the mountboard, so it wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the one at the edge of the paper. I wondered what you experts would do? Would you let the bottom edge of the document fall 1mm or so short of the mountboard, or would you mount the document as normal but make a small cut-away around the seal, or something else?

[GeoSpectrum]

I'd be tempted to make the cut away, but make a feature of it, I'd make it a good bit larger than the seal all round. If you have, or have access to a CMC doing this with a double mount could look very nice. IMHO.

[Rainbow]

Thanks Geospectrum. I haven't got a CMC but one of my friends who is an artist was taught how to bevel edges by hand with a scalpel and I think he'd be able to do a clean cut-away. The moulding that the customer has chosen probably doesn't have a deep enough rebate to take a double mount unfortunately.

[Roboframer]

I was going to suggest float mounting and a rebate spacer but if there isn't room for a double mount that's not a go-er unless you extend the rebate.

A double mount would be possible if you treated the undermount as the backing board - pin and seal with tape - then cut the backing board to sit ON the back of the frame, fixed on with a bead of glue and a few staples - then taped over if you like.

[Rainbow]

A double mount would be possible if you treated the undermount as the backing board - pin and seal with tape - then cut the backing board to sit ON the back of the frame, fixed on with a bead of glue and a few staples - then taped over if you like.

I've sometimes wanted to do this but never quite liked to in case the customer thought it looked odd. But if you do it, it must be OK This might be a silly question but I don't suppose the shock/vibration from the staple gun could risk cracking the glass, could it, ie do you have to protect the glass in some way?

[Roboframer]

I do it now and then to save a few mm of rebate space when a customer particularly wants a moulding that hasn't quite got the depth - have one on the go right now for a LP record and sleeve as it happens.

You could knock nails in to the back of the frame without breaking the glass; firing a few staples in to the back is no different to firing points in to the rebate .... some framers fire staples through the backing in to the rebate!

If in doubt you could always use a few countersunk screws.

[Rainbow]

Thanks for your advice, Roboframer, that's really useful to know.

I think I'd better first check with my artist friend that he's confident about bevelling the cut-away, then give my customer the various options

[GeoSpectrum]

Robo, it's good to hear you occasional save a bit of space by omitting the backing. I've got the same problem with a cross stitch, the customer wanted a very narrow frame which didn't have the necessacary depth. I recon ill get away with it now! can you get Kraft coloured mountboard? I'm not to keen on white backs on my frames.

[Jamesnkr]

It always feels as though it *could* break the glass, but never does (never has, anyway...). A great way of winning 4mm extra in the frame.

The other thing that works - if you're less short on space - is to cut the undermount a few mm less all round. The backing board will then have a bit of a bow in it, but if the frame is big enough that won't matter.

[Roboframer]

can you get Kraft coloured mountboard? I'm not to keen on white backs on my frames.

You can but I do not omit the backing board in these situations, I put it ON the back of the frame as opposed to In it - innit!

[prospero]

I think cutting a bit to accommodate the protruding seal is maybe your best option. If you can do a bevel freehand all the better, but a square cut edge wouldn't look amiss.
Maybe add a gold line around to restore the look of a continuous window.
If you can I would use strips of Mylar to hold it in place. Old paper sometimes doesn't like adhesives.

One thing to watch if you fix the backing board on top of the frame is to make sure the backing board is well sealed. Not such a problem on small pieces, but if the board swells it will either bow out or force the frame corners apart

[Rainbow]

If you can I would use strips of Mylar to hold it in place. Old paper sometimes doesn't like adhesives.

Great suggestion, thanks. I've done a bit of searching around the forum and I gather these two are the same as or similar to Mylar strips, is that right?

https://www.lionpic.co.uk/p/7966/Lineco ... Pack-of-60

https://www.lionpic.co.uk/p/9650/Secol- ... Pack-of-25

[prospero]

Them's the ones.

[Roboframer]

I know they're not that expensive but if you use melinex a lot you make them out of scraps, IOW they're free. ..... bar a bit of 3m 415 tape.

[Roboframer]

But you have to mount too close to the paper edge to conceal them, so not really an option.

[Roboframer]

One thing to watch if you fix the backing board on top of the frame is to make sure the backing board is well sealed. Not such a problem on small pieces, but if the board swells it will either bow out or force the frame corners apart

If the board swells and is sturdy enough to have an effect it won't matter if it's fixed on or in the frame ..... or well sealed! I'm sure we're talking smaller pieces here though - larger pieces need larger frames where this simply should not be an issue. We're talking artbak/corriicor - maybe 2mm MDF.

Also, if the board swells, chances are .... in fact it's almost certain, the frame has been subjected to bad conditions - extremely bad actually and, as a framer, you can''t odds that.

[prospero]

I'm talking from experience here. If the backer is inside the frame it has a few mm to expand into. If it's fixed it has no option but to bow or break the corners. Or both.
Seen it happen. It only needs someone to use a portable gas heater.