Nightmare on Tulipwood Street

[Colin Macintyre]

Once again I seek advice from those that have "Been there, Done that, Framed the T-shirt." I often use Tulipwood and paint it. I recently framed a couple of pieces for a local artist who was exhibiting her work. I used a 2" wide Tulipwood frame with a 1" bulllnose slip frame. The customer contacted me a few weeks later, to say all the mitres had opened up (as per photo).I had joined the 50mm wide, 20mm deep, moulding using four 15mm wedges at each corner glued and underpinned at the same time. I will replace the frames, but all I can think to do is reinforce the corners with metal corner plates. Surely this problem has been caused by shrinkage in the wood? So here a few questions I would appreciate answers to:

1). Is it necessary to test the moisture content of mouldings that come from the supplier? If so where do I get information about how to do this?
2). I was using an inner slip frame. I make the slip frame a snug fit. Is that bad practice?
3). How would others deal with this sort of problem from the customer service perspective. I suppose I could have said: "they were fine when you collected them". Replacing two is a costly annoyance. Replacing ten could have deeply dented my yearly profits.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,

Colin.

[JFeig]

1). Is it necessary to test the moisture content of mouldings that come from the supplier? If so where do I get information about how to do this?
2). I was using an inner slip frame. I make the slip frame a snug fit. Is that bad practice?

If you are using air dried timber the answer to question #1, the answer is yes. If you are using pre-milled moulding that is kiln dried, the answer is no.
For question #2, there should be a small gap all the around the 2 stacked frames to allow for expansion and contraction.

[prospero]

It's problem I have had on occasion. As you surmise, it's the wood shrinking. Wood tends to swell sideways - that is, across the grain. Most of the time the joint is still stuck.

What I would do in this case is to fill the crack with non-solvented cartridge type glue. Work it as deep into the crack as you can and sand it flush when dry. This type of glue works well as a repair filler and takes water-based paint OK. You'll probably have to recoat the whole liner.

It's a faff, buts as faffs go it's not a difficult faff.

I would also add that when stacking frames it's not wise to make the elements too snug unless they are firmly glued together.

[vintage frames]

The wood has shrunk and there's nothing you can do about that now. Best thing is to fill the cracked mitres with wood filler and when that's dry, sand the whole surface of the frame smooth again and re-paint.
I've never liked tulip wood especially and I don't know much about its moisture content save for all the recent rain and humidity that some wood in storage is bound to absorb a degree of atmospheric moisture.
I've always found obeche much more stable, so my advice is to repair the frames and don't buy any more tulip.

[prospero]

FWIW I find that softwoods (pine,etc) move about the most.
On my saw setup I have a bit of 4" wide piece of pine which acts as a measuring stop and runs between two guides. In the winter it's snug but in the summer there is a approx 3/16" gap which I have to jam a little wedge into.

Also I had to put my boot to the shed door yesterday.

[caro]

Did you ask where your customer had hung the pictures? Above a fire/radiator? Is their central heating turned up high at the moment? in my experience non framing people don't think about these things, I also advise people not to leave pictures in their cars while they go off do other shopping.

But I think the crucial thing is that their house heat and humidity levels could be hugely different to your workshop and this is most telling on wide frames, and the framer cant have any control over the conditions to which the frame issubjected once it has left their premises.

[Rainbow]

I also advise people not to leave pictures in their cars while they go off do other shopping.

I find this interesting because whenever I've mentioned to somebody that I don't want to have pictures hanging around in a car, they've thought it was a bit OTT so I'm glad to hear it's not just me. Is your reasoning because the humidity might affect the artwork or framing, or because it might get stolen?

[Jamesnkr]

Heat. Frames don't like the heat; they expand; sticky tape comes off etc. The worst is exhibitions in marquees during the winter. In order for the heat at ground level to be acceptable, 3 or 4 metres up it's very hot indeed. Marquees can also be rather more humid.

[prospero]

Antique furniture suffers from this. Some pieces that have stood for decades in draughty old houses suffer badly when moved into modern places with central heating.

[Colin Macintyre]

Thanks to all, for your interesting and helpful comments. I shall repair rather replace, as I had originally planned. I had wondered about the atmospheric conditions where they were hung. They were in an exhibition, but I have never been to the venue. Of course right above a strong radiatiator could cause problems. In future I may need to quibble my "no quibble" guarantee! Perhaps I will start to use less Tulipwood , which is a shame because I find it cuts, joins, and paints well.

Colin.

[prospero]

Bit of a bind I know, but you'll probably find if you fill the gaps and repaint the cracks won't reappear.

Metal L plates might be a good idea. Can't beat a bit of over-engineering.


I've seen frames on display in quite prestigious public galleries with corner gaps wide enough to get your finger in.

[caro]

The thing about cars is the rapid change in temperature which can occur, e.g. plummets to cold in winter once you park switch heater off or reverse on sunny day. Not so bad if frame is insulated in bubble wrap! Or in the boot, but I recommend big glazed pictures have seat belt round them.

[David McCormack]

...so my advice is to repair the frames and don't buy any more tulip.

Perhaps I will start to use less Tulipwood , which is a shame because I find it cuts, joins, and paints well.

I wouldn’t use less tulipwood just based on your recent experiences with it. All wood is prone to expansion and shrinkage due to changes in humidity etc. Like you I find it a lovely wood to work with, see all the positive comments about it here http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11686

[Not your average framer]

I've seen this problem before. Tulipwood is very popular in Devon and Cornwall and when I've been out and about I have noticed this happening with tulipwood, not just on larger frames, but on other sizes of frames as well. It's quite a damp climate around here at times and even during warmer times of the year, the atmosphere can still be rather humid, so that may well be a contributing factor, as has already been suggested.

I'm not aware of any problems with frames that I have made, but I can't remember using any tulipwood mouldings of that sort of size, so maybe this is more of a problem with larger mouldings. In spite of such problems, which are often easy to spot in various venues, tulipwood seems as popular as ever. I'm inclined to suggest a really strong glue, such as Cascamite and to put a few extra wedges in each mitre to make the joints as strong as possible, or even to biscuit join the mitres.

Before the sad demise of Venton Enterprises, I used plenty of tulipwood and now I hardly use it at all. There was not any particular reason for this apart from our stock of tulipwood mouldings declining after the closure of Venton's. We were going to get other tulipwood mouldings from elsewhere, so somehow this never happened. How many frames were affected like this? If it's only one, this could just be an isolated incident and as such not necessarily a pressing reason to stop using tulipwood.

[Rainbow]

I'm inclined to suggest a really strong glue, such as Cascamite

Talking of glue, does anyone rate Gorilla wood glue that I've seen advertised a few times. Is it suitable for picture framing?

[standenfineart]

Not used Gorilla but Titebond III is my glue of choice especially when going on to soak with gesso.

http://www.titebond.com/titebond_wood_g ... _Glue.aspx

[Jamesnkr]

Who couldn't like Gorilla glue with advertising like this?

http://uk.gorillaglue.com/gorilla-wood-glue#video-2

I can't help but feel that 90% of the cost of it is paying for the advertising... but I've been using some recently as I had a pot of it and it seems to go on OK.

Just don't be tempted to use builder's PVA - that comes in 2-gallon pots. It isn't wood glue, it doesn't dry clear and it doesn't have as good mechanical properties as woodworker's PVA.

[vintage frames]

I've used the standard "super tough" Gorilla glue. This expands to fill any gaps as it cures. However it is not very user friendly in that the nozzels on the dispenser clog up easily, the expanding glue can bleed out from the joints and the dry residue is difficult to remove or sand clean. As to when it gets on your fingers - same miseries as superglue.
Having said that I havn't tried their wood glue.
The best technical glue for wood-working I'd say is Titebond 111, as was mentioned before.

[GeoSpectrum]

I've been using the PVA wood glue from Lion of late, I find it pretty good.

[prospero]

One day I will take my own advice.

Sunday I made two frames from 3/4" wide flat pine. I got it out of the shed, which is dry but unheated. Yesterday I came to assemble said frames to find that the corners had gapped exactly like the one in the OP. They had been in the warm overnight.

This week I have a lot of 2" liners to make. Moulding came last week and in the shed. So I have just unpacked it all and laid it in the warm workshop.
I've done 100s of liners like this from the same moulding and only ever had one crack. I normally store this moulding in the warm. Go Figure.