The Framers Forum

Hello everyone

I'm looking to purchase a manual Underpinner and have come across the Framers Corner M4, which looks a well built and featured machine for the money. I'd love to hear from anyone with experience of these Underpinners, even the M3. Any advice would be appreciated, as I'm a beginner and just learning the trade. The other model I've considered is the Inmes IM-3?

I'm open to suggestions of other machines around £500 too?

Thanks in advance

My advice is, if you can get one buy a second hand alpha, fantastic manual underpinner, failling that a cassese CS 88 will be fine, the framers corner M4 is wank and the M3 is worse just my opinion of course.

IFGL wrote:My advice is, if you can get one buy a second hand alpha, fantastic manual underpinner, failling that a cassese CS 88 will be fine, the framers corner M4 is wank and the M3 is worse just my opinion of course.

Thanks IFGL...have you used the M3 & M4 and could you be more specific about the issues you have encountered please.

Also, would this be a better option...Alfamacchine U200 Manual Underpinned?

I ordered a M4 when my alpha broke, it could be there for the next day so very little loss of production whilst the other was waiting for repair, the M4 looks the part it is however, cheaply made and compared to the alpha and cassese machines quite clunky, it does the job but given the choice I would buy a second hand machine of a higher quality, I couldn't wait to get my alpha back, the M3 is a lighter version, you have 500 to spend that would buy you a used pneumatic machine which would be better still, I have not used the inmes their wedges are good though.

I use an M3 for four years. It's basic but it works, it's made down to a price so is a but crude here and there.

No good for hardwood though so if you are planning on using oak or ash etc don't bother. (I used the Hoffman system for hardwoods).

I now use a Cassese CS20 air underpinner.

I am a firm believer in cassese. They are robust machines and what you spend on one now you will save many times over in the long run and have a machine with a good resale value if you choose to upgrade.

Thanks to all for the input.

Are there any manual underpinners that can handle both hard and soft wood?

I may try and find some extra cash and up my budget, as I don't want to have to buy something else in 6 months time. Id be interested in opinions on which is the best all round manual machine. I'd prefer to buy new as I've been bitten before buying secondhand items.

Is anyone using or has used the Alfamacchine U200? What about wedges and spare parts etc?

super_claret wrote:Are there any manual underpinners that can handle both hard and soft wood?

I use the foot operated Cassese CS88 and can't/won't pin with anything larger than a 10mm wedge and sometimes that will not go all the way in with hardwoods like oak and ash. When that happens you have to file down the protruding wedge. When you work with obeche or tulipwood the CS88 is fine and you can stack wedges easily, even 15mm wedges for very deep profiles.

You can work with hardwoods on the CS88 depending on the profile of the hardwood, deep ones are tricky, flat ones not so bad. A flat hardwood will join well if you use three or four 7mm wedges (one at the front and back and one or two in the middle) and plenty of glue and then strap it all together for several hours.

There are other ways of joining hardwood frames without an underpinner... biscuit joiner, cross nails, dowels... depends on how much of your work will be hardwoods?

If you want to work in hard woods you are best with a pneumatic pinner, though I used to use a cs88 in ash all the time using 12mm wedges, oak as David says you cant get anything more than a 10mm.

Our alpha 1m had no problems with hard wood, all but the hardest wood anyway, that said pneumatic underpinners will struggle on the hardest woods.

Thanks to all for your input. After much deliberation I purchased an Alfa U200, which seems to be doing the job quite nicely, although it is early days!

Any advice on technique for perfect joins using a manual underpinned would be greatly received.