Large antique plates - how?

[Just Love Art]

I have been asked about framing two individual large plates 440mm in diameter and 20mm deep.

I have proposed these be housed in an oak frame with museum glass and conservation mount backing perhaps with a slip around the edge.

My problem is with how I can hold them in place within the frame using a reversible method. I was considering using some kind of wooden choc glued in place but feel these may look a bit crude. I'd love any suggestion you might have as I know standard plate hangers that stick to the back would not be appropriate.

[Roboframer]

Welcome to the forum!

Formed rods such as these http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.ph ... 39&p=76257
Or even a spring plate hanger like I used here http://theframersforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=11057&f=32

I don't understand this bit

conservation mount backing perhaps with a slip around the edge.

If you need a glass spacer you can use foam board in the rebate, maybe with mountboard to match bonded to it.

[baughen]

Don't they normally say on progammes such as the Antiques Roadshow not to use plate hangers (because of the potential damage they may do)?

[Roboframer]

They're OK for plates in good condition, as long as the right size is used, however, making your own formed rods is far better as the weight is spread better and they are not under spring tension. You could cut the arms off a plate hanger to make your own formed rods.

It was discussed, with links, in the thread I posted.

[Not your average framer]

What Roboframer says is pretty good advice. There are quite a number of ways to frame plates and most of them are a PITA and often take a lot more time to do. My local hardware shop stocks the plastic coated formed steel wire ones and these are the ones that I use and they take much of the hassle out of doing them.

Part of the reason for some warning against using them, was because older versions at one time were not coated with plastic and therefore caused metal contact directly against the plate. I use the plastic coated ones, but remove the spring and replace the spring with a thin nylon cable tie.

The cable tie does not need to be super tight, but it must not allow unnecessary movement between the plate and the hanger. The thin nylon cable tie enables you to use no more tension than necessary to retain the plate, where as the tension from the normal spring can sometimes be a bit over the top with fragile bone china, etc.

Larger cable ties do not have the same amount of give as the thin ones when installed and not all cable ties are the same, so it's worth shopping around and getting ones that work well. I wish I could remember how I came by the large assorted bag of cable ties that I've got, but it was to long ago to remember.

[kartoffelngeist]

I've used Mighty Mount bits for attaching a few things and been quite happy with them. Never tried the plate holders though.

https://www.lionpic.co.uk/p/8887/Mighty ... olders--12

[Framemaker Richard]

Here's another option:

http://www.dauphin.co.uk/Wall_Plate_Hangers.htm

[skerries frameworks]

lION SELL STICK ON PLATE HANGERS VERY SIMPLE TO USE AND REVERCABEL

[Roboframer]

The stick on ones are the ones that antiques roadshow etc say never to use.

You can't use the hook provided in a frame, well you can if you want it to flop against the glass, so you'd have to stick the gummed disc to the mounting board - may as well just stick the plate direct to the mounting board.

[Not your average framer]

The stick on ones have a waterbased adhesive which looks similar to the adhesive on brown gummed paper tape. Gummed paper tape is not particularly great on non absorbent surfaces, so I would prefer not to rely on a similar adhesive for an application when an alternatives such as a plastic coated metal plate hanger, or formed rod are not subject to the same possible failure process.

[Just Love Art]

Thank you for all of your suggestions and responses. I also asked the same question via the Fine Art Trade Guild and I decided to use their option in the end as it fitted better with what this particular customer wanted. I have added an image for reference on this.

Thanks again chaps.

AntiquePlates.jpg (80.29 KiB) Viewed 18782 times

[Roboframer]

It's hard to tell how they have been mounted, can you explain? It looks like an aperture mount with the plate underneath it, is that right?

How did you ask the FATG, are you a member?

[Just Love Art]

Hi Robbo, yes I joined to help gain knowledge as I was new to the industry following redundancy a couple of years ago. It is an aperture mount held in place at the back. My customer had previously had them in large wire holders and wanted to move away from that and make it current. Are you a member of the FATG, wondered if many on here are?

[Roboframer]

I'm not a member but have been, twice, and there indeed are some forum members that are also FATG members.

The advice they gave you was bad, you've buried it and lost detail and dimension; there is no reason why a plate should look any different in a frame to how it looks when presented to you.

What actually holds it in place at the back anyway?

.

[Just Love Art]

This is how the customer wanted it. How can it be bad, because you can't' see a small part of the rim or the underside?

Why did you leave the FATG?

[IFGL]

It is bad because you have totally lost what they are, there's no depth, they might as well be prints.

[Just Love Art]

These were hand painted antique plates no deeper than 20mm. The customer specifically asked for them not to be in a hanger as they have become marked at the edges after years of being hung in this mannerand wanted them housed within wood, I have used Ash and try vue anti reflective UV protection museum glass. It is very clear when faced with them that they are plates and not prints! How would you have done this IFGL? It is only bad if the customer isn't happy with them or they are not protected surely?

[IFGL]

I would have gone with how the customer wanted them doing, it doesn't mean I would not have thought it looked bad or didn't suit the item, you asked why they were bad, I told you.

I have used epoxy resin for plates before, this is a good method for plates you know that will be OK heated to around 100 c, it wipes off at around that temperature, formed rods, we have also done them the way you have shown.

[Jamesnkr]

It is only bad if the customer isn't happy with them

Errr... customers sometimes need educating.

I think they look very silly indeed, they look like prints - bent prints - but prints nonetheless. To look like a plate you need to see the rims and that they are spaced away from the backboard. They aren't watercolours/prints to be framed like a watercolour/print. They are artefacts that need to be framed so that they still look like artefacts at the end. A picture is a picture that is designed to be framed in traditional fashion and hung on the wall. Anything else needs to feel (if possible) like an artefact at the end after it has been framed.

You need to be able to look at the frame on the wall and think, "Oh look, a plate, I could almost reach in and pick it up."

Those just look silly. Sorry, but you did ask! Absolutely no offence intended, they're nice frames. But I looked at your post and my initial thought was to wonder why you had posted a picture of two framed oval pictures.

[Not your average framer]

Sorry, but I also agree. Plates should look like plates.

I also think that it is desirable to see the edge of the plate, particularly as this is important to collectors and covering the edge of the plate, makes it impossible to determine the condition of the plate without removing it from the frame

BTW, if you can find an old fashioned model makers shop somewhere, some of the sell lengths of round perspex rod which can be bent with heat and you can make you own transparent formed rods, if you don't like the appearance of the plastic coated metal ones.