Workshop Climate (Re-post from General Discussion)

[hawkswood]

(Re-post from General Discussion Thread. As you can see, I'm looking at workshop spaces right now, so forgive me if I'm thrashing about like an amateur...)

I've found a few threads on this, but going to be really specific. I'm currently looking for my first workshop space as my equipment has grown too large for where I live. I'm pretty much terrified of renting a place that proves to be too moist and makes paper buckle. All of the affordable places I have seen are unheated. I have looked at one that was at 56% humidity (5 pm this afternoon) when it's only a couple of degrees out, which seems promising to me.

My understanding is that for domestic environments, 50%-60% is about right. I know I can run dehumidifiers, but there will be some stretches of time where I might not be able to turn them on for a few days in a row. So, they can only count for so much, as far as general condition for your stock (people's artwork, mountboards, etc?).

Any pointers / anecdotes would be very highly appreciated.

[Trinity]

Why not build a box within a your bigger box and the stuff your concerned about can stay in there as warm and dry as you'd like.

[hawkswood]

I hadn't thought about that, but it seems like a good idea.

I suppose it is mostly mountboard, paper stock and artwork I'm concerned about, and would expect to keep that in a drawer unit which could be further protected.

[prospero]

Whatever you choose there is one thing I will mention.

Avoid those portable gas heaters. They chuck out a lot of heat, but they also chuck out a lot
of humidity.I had one once and there was actual fog inside the room.

[hawkswood]

Updated question: Does it look to you like I could make this workshop space suitable? Please see images linked to in thumbnail below.

The owners have offered to put electric heaters in for me, and I know I could bring in an industrial dehumidifier. Three of the walls are interior, the one to the left in the picture of the space is exterior. Perhaps I could add insulation from the inside? That said, the picture of the upper ceiling is a concern. Perhaps this is why the rent is relatively cheap at £260 per month (inc VAT) inclusive of security, service charge and water.

The humidity currently reads around 60% RH in the early evening. However, I left a book and a notepad in there overnight. Completely flat when I put them there, see how they're looking the next day. As ever, advice appreciated. I've gone through everything to do with humidity on the forum but seen not answer to this sort of thing.

[JFeig]

Those books look like they have seen a greater RH change than 60%. printing paper can take several days to "stabilize" before it is ready for printing presses.

[hawkswood]

Thanks JFeig. The RH was 60% when I measured it in the early evening. I realised it will have fluctuated it overnight, and it's that which I need to control. I don't immediately follow how the information about printing paper stabilising applies, so would appreciate you spelling it out a bit for me?

[Jamesnkr]

Dealing with damp:

1. Stop the water from getting in.
2. Get out the water that's in there.
3. Increase the temperature as warm air holds more water than cold, so the RH reduces as the temperature rises for the same amount of moisture in the air.

It looks as though there is a leak in the roof. It may of course be old damage, but the reaction of those books suggests that it's dripping wet in there! Fix the roof, and that will be the first part of your problem dealt with. Then put in some air bricks, and fit an extractor fan that is activated by a humidistat - i.e. if the RH rises above a critical level, the extractor fan extracts the sopping wet air from inside, and replaces it with the drier air from outside. An alternative way of achieving this would be a wood-burning stove; nothing moves air through a room like a fire.

Then... water condenses on cold surfaces. So insulate the walls, floor and ceiling. Put some double-glazed units in the ceiling. Double glazed units are *dirt* cheap, and fit them into wooden window frames.

Fix your rent for ten years, spend a couple of thousand on the place, and it looks great! Get the landlord to fix the roof as a condition of signing the lease.

[prospero]

That's a great space for chopping and joining. Long and thin.
I wouldn't want to do mounting in it though. Even if you insulated the walls.
All that peely paint. Also I would never work on any artwork with water pipes overhead.

[Jamesnkr]

All that peely paint. Also I would never work on any artwork with water pipes overhead.

Any building with central heating will have water pipes overhead, unless you're in the attic. With the quantity of stock I have, it does worry me...

[prospero]

Ideally, you would have one space for doing the jobs that involve delicate stuff. Cutting mounts and
general mounting and assembly. It would be about the same climate as a typical living room in a house.
i notice from the photos that there appears to be a little office. Not sure how big this is but you could enlarge this
to make a reasonable-sized clean (and warm) room.

The 'rough stuff' - cutting frames and wotnot can be done in an unheated area. Being more physical work
you can work up a bit of a sweat. Another advantage to separating the two operations is that dust and
muck from frame-making won't migrate onto your nice clean artwork.

This is not always possible by any means, but worth thinking about.

Another thing about overhead pipes is that even if they don't leak they have a tendency for moisture to condense on them,
so you don't want them above exposed artwork on a bench or you may get drips. Also, if a sparrow gets in you may get worse.

[JFeig]

I don't immediately follow how the information about printing paper stabilising applies, so would appreciate you spelling it out a bit for me?

It is part of the quality control of printing that paper has to be stable and flat for the best printing quality.
http://www.printing.org/Effects-of-Temp ... y-on-Paper

[hawkswood]

Thanks very much for your detailed advice Jamesnkr and Prospero. I think it's safe to say that this space wouldn't be workable, and passed it up after running some of my needs by the landlords. Yes, it struck me as a very good shape room for receiving mouldings. Oh, and see what you mean JFeig.

The search continues...

[Jamesnkr]

That's a shame. I thought it looked good - albeit after some up-front expenditure.

[prospero]

Yes. As a purely frame-cutting and storage area it is close to ideal. Long and narrow
with plenty of headroom.

[hawkswood]

That's a shame. I thought it looked good - albeit after some up-front expenditure.

Yes, I did put it to them that I would be keen to do these things, but the landlords declined.

[fraggle]

Dealing with damp:

1. Stop the water from getting in.
2. Get out the water that's in there.
3. Increase the temperature as warm air holds more water than cold, so the RH reduces as the temperature rises for the same amount of moisture in the air.

It looks as though there is a leak in the roof. It may of course be old damage, but the reaction An alternative way of achieving this would be a wood-burning stove; nothing moves air through a room like a fire.

.

Out of interest....
Great fan of woodburners and my heater struggles at this time of year but surely it generates dust. Good use of offcuts too! Any opinions on this/tips for limiting dust. Does anyone have any kind of air filtration system in their workshop? Thx

[vintage frames]

I think wood-burning stoves are a magnificent source of heat. And very healthy too when you consider the volume of air drawn through the room. Just look at the initial cloud of smoke from the chimney when you first light up. All that volume of air is being continually drawn from the room and then been replaced by clean fresh air. I think the only time you would create dust is when cleaning out the ash. If you burn wood, this only needs done every week or so - at least that's my experience. Of course make sure you have adequate input of fresh air from outside.