The Framers Forum

I have a Lion L1408 moulding to cut.
Rebate supports won't go as high as moulding.
Do I use off cuts of wood or mount board to build up supports or is there another trick please?
Thx

Also any tips on the best technique to join. I have a cassese 88. I don't want the stacks to burst through but is for a heavy rugby shirt approx 100 x 80 cm so I need to make sure that it is joined strongly like usual. Would you glue before underpinning in this instance?

I use 5mm square spacer or sometimes 5x10mm the 5mm just tucks in nicely under the rebate.
Glue Pin & Clamp your moulding.

Thanks Ricky. Would you glue and clamp first and then under pin or glue, stack pins and then clamp? This is what I would usually do with a tricky frame.

You can buy extra-high supports for the Morso but they are not cheap.
Not really worth buying unless you are cutting deep mouldings frequently.
In situations like this I just stick two bits of suitable square wood to the
existing supports, tacked on with a strip of double-stick tape.

As for pinning, The best strategy I've found is to stack near the inside of
the moulding first and then add a single v-nail toward the outer edge.

You have a big, heavy piece of glass to support so corner strength is crucial.
I would be inclined to add a couple of comventional nails in each corner,
near to the face of the moulding in addition to the v-nails. Making sure they
don't collide of course..... This would leave some holes to fill, but would add
a lot of strength. Add the nails after underpinning but don't wait until the glue
has set.

If I were doing the frame I would probably use painted bare wood and if the moulding
were meaty enough use crossed woodscrews. Bigger holes to fill, but even stronger.

Thanks Prospero - will go and take a look at it.

All frames should be glued as well as pinned. The pins are there to help the glue to set; not to hold the frame together.

I also have the L1401 spacers. What in your experience is the best way to secure them inside the frame. Do you glue them all together before inserting them or attach each face to the inside of the frame? I want a technique that is conservation grade is the item is valuable. Thanks

Yup I always glue and pin.

fraggle wrote:I also have the L1401 spacers. What in your experience is the best way to secure them inside the frame. Do you glue them all together before inserting them or attach each face to the inside of the frame? I want a technique that is conservation grade is the item is valuable. Thanks

I would mitre and pin the spacers. Then you can simply drop the resultant frame in and it won't go far.
You need to get the fit just right. Not too tight. Rounding off the corners slightly will make a nicer
fit. If you do get it a bit sloppy then a few shims of thin card will stop it rattling about.
If you glue the spacers to the sides of the frame they will do the same job, but if the glass ever needs to be
replaced then removing them will be problematic.

Conservation doesn't really come into it.

prospero wrote:I would mitre and pin the spacers

Even on a frame that's 40"x25"? I'm afraid that I just stick it (R&H F2 is the fillet - and I had to use A42 as it was all I had, would have preferred something smaller). If you don't stick it, then it *will* bow. Incumbent upon the customer not to break the glass. And if the fillet is stuck then the glass is less likely to break anyway.

Here's one I did yesterday. Roboframer wouldn't like it one bit as it hasn't got a huge ugly mount, but he's not able to give me a broadside for it...

If I'm using a spacer on the final frame I add it here and support under the spacer and cut as normal. This leaves me with 4 frame lengths and 4 spacer lengths.
If I'm not going to be using a spacer I just add a sacrificial piece of wood and support under it, moving it along a little each time.
When joining I just glue and pin as normal, adding more near the middle, and maybe just 2 or 3 stacked outside, but not too near the edge.
I normally glue the spacers in place.

I use a bit of small square oak (with a bit cut out to avoid the rivet) moulding doubled sided to the rebate support,

Spacers are cut & pinned (top and bottom), then if on a large frame , two bit of double sided tape near the middle with a couple dabs of pva glue to hold it in place, the D/S tape is used to hold the spacer in place until the pva glue sets, only use a few dabs of glue, so if you have to remove the spacer to say replace broken glass,you can break the glue with just sliding screwdriver between the spacer and frame