The Framers Forum

I have a photograph 90cm x 60cm which my customer insists after framing will hang in a conservatory (not in direst sun I was assured). I have persuaded them to have conservation clear 99% glass and a mount but I’m not quite sure how to deal with the photograph? It’s not flat so considered dry mounting it or using a self adhesive board? I’m not sure which is the best approach given the conditions it will face hung in a conservatory. I’ve not had a photograph dry mounted before so is there a considerable risk involved in this process with a photograph this size?

Self adhesive board needs an enormous amount of even pressure to bond well. If you haven't got a steam roller I would go for a heat-activated method.

I use a hotpress for most of this sort of thing with no problems.

I also use sticky boards for stuff that can't be heated - those custom OS maps, or if artwork has certain laminates or UV varnish that will be damaged by heat.

I've never had anything other than perfect bonding with sticky boards - they're very good for what they are. I just use a rubber hand roller and find it quite easy to get good adhesion. They might not be as permanent, but a friend uses them for all her mounting despite having a hotpress and has never had a return.

So, for the price of a handroller and a sheet of Crescent, it's probably worth having a go - afterall, can't the photo be reprinted in future in the unlikely event that it fails?

Or if you know someone with a Hotpress, it would be a slightly safer bet to have it dry-mounted properly.

Glimpse wrote:I use a hotpress for most of this sort of thing with no problems.

I also use sticky boards for stuff that can't be heated - those custom OS maps, or if artwork has certain laminates or UV varnish that will be damaged by heat.

I've never had anything other than perfect bonding with sticky boards - they're very good for what they are. I just use a rubber hand roller and find it quite easy to get good adhesion. They might not be as permanent, but a friend uses them for all her mounting despite having a hotpress and has never had a return.

So, for the price of a handroller and a sheet of Crescent, it's probably worth having a go - afterall, can't the photo be reprinted in future in the unlikely event that it fails?

Or if you know someone with a Hotpress, it would be a slightly safer bet to have it dry-mounted properly.

When you roll out the photo on to sticky board do you roll directly on to photo or put a sheet of something on it first?
Im new to framing so still learning


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Ed, have a look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aI9YvtnVEj0

I found this very nerve-racking the first time I did it but it was much easier in the end than I expected.

It get harder to get something down dead flat on to self adhesive board as the artwork get bigger. If you start off at one end and every thing looks fine, how do you correct it when a crease starts to appear by the time to get to the other end.

The other thing is that I've read somewhere that it's not a good idea to use self adhesive board beyond about 16" x 20", I don't know if this is because of the problem I've just described, but I'm not too keen on using self adhesive board on larger artworks myself. Not for me thanks!

I do it similar to the video, just fold back a narrow strip, stick your edge down and the pull out the release paper while smoothing the artwork down in one smooth movement. Definitely practice it once before doing it on a customer’s artwork, but it’s not too difficult!

Not your average framer wrote:If you start off at one end and every thing looks fine, how do you correct it when a crease starts to appear by the time to get to the other end.

You make sure it doesn't! The first s/a board I did was a large poster and I was very nervous about doing it but I did it in much the same way as in the video and it worked beautifully. I think the only time you would get a problem would be if the poster/photo was wavy or rippled, in which case I wouldn't attempt it.

I for one would never attempt to use self adhesive on that size of photo; its just too big to handle without an issue.

I would always use a hotpress for large photos and even then I have had the occasional cock up

When I set up my second framing workshop after a very long break one of the first purchases I made was online from "Allposters" including some large cheap posters "Tiger in Snow", "Dinosaurs", "17th Century World Map", " "Hogsmead", "London Underground" "The Human Body" and such. Some people would consider them absolute carp. My specific intention was to test myself framing/mounting etc. Could I still do it

As I no longer had my old Ademco I used the techniques shown in the video with a modicum of success. I don't think I paid more than £4.99 for any of them but they have ALL sold

FWIW I find a roller useful and cotton gloves.

Peter

The problem with mounting down pictures using hand pressure is you can never get even pressure all over. Depending on the
nature of the paper, it will tend to want to expand. There will be weak spots in the bonding and this is where you get bubbles.
Once you get a bubble you can never flatten it successfully even if the board beneath is still tacky. The area where the bubble
is will be bigger than the area of the board beneath and the surrounding area will be stuck fast. Therefore if you try to flatten it
you get a tight half-moon crease. The only way to resolve to problem would be to remove the print and humidify it. A tricky process.
But you can't really remove the paper because it will be stuck fast in the areas where it has not bubbled. The bigger the print, the
greater the chance of bubbling.

All in all this method should be regarded as a temporary thing. Using a roller-mounter might give better results as the pressure is much
greater and more importantly, even all over. Even so, I would always heat-mount it if possible.

Depending on the nature of the paper, it will tend to want to expand. There will be weak spots in the bonding and this is where you get bubbles

Theoretically, but in reality it doesn’t happen. Certainly not enough to be a problem. The adhesive on these boards is fantastic - once they’re stuck, they’re stuck. There’s more chance of the paper failing than the adhesive in most cases.

I can't remember seeing a print that had been stuck to s/a foam board that didn't have bumps in it.

Just my experience. I don't trust it.

I've never had reason to use foam boards, I only use the crescent boards - just like a mount/display board with adhesive.

I would imagine it's difficult to use anything more thn light pressure on a foam board without crushing it, and any undulations might be because the board has been squished rather than the adhesive failing?

It's dead easy to apply ample pressure on boards, I really don't understand why people claim not to be able to.

And I find artwork that is rolled up far easier to mount... I've got a couple of OS maps to this week - they're relatively straightforward as long as your bench is big enough.

I attach the short edge with the artwork still rolled up and use a steel rule to unfurl it as the backing is released.

Lion do Foam-Lite TAF which claims to allow trapped air to escape, search Lion 9496.
I've used it successfully for photos, canvas and other media, no bubbles

Glimpse wrote:I've never had reason to use foam boards, I only use the crescent boards - just like a mount/display board with adhesive.

I would imagine it's difficult to use anything more thn light pressure on a foam board without crushing it, and any undulations might be because the board has been squished rather than the adhesive failing?

It's dead easy to apply ample pressure on boards, I really don't understand why people claim not to be able to.

And I find artwork that is rolled up far easier to mount... I've got a couple of OS maps to this week - they're relatively straightforward as long as your bench is big enough.

I attach the short edge with the artwork still rolled up and use a steel rule to unfurl it as the backing is released.

What Crescent board do you use please as been on Wessex site and they do a expensive one that sounds a bit forgiving or a cheaper aggressive stick one?


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I think it’s the aggressive one! Once it’s stuck, it’s stuck!

I can’t imagine they could ever be repositionable without damaging the artwork.

If you have small bubbles that won't push to the edge, don't press them into a crescent, make the tiniest hole with a pin prick so that the air can escape. You may notice the pin prick but it's unlikely anyone else will!
If you totally screw up, stand the artwork on it's end and pour a stream of lighter fuel along the gap between the artwork and the self adhesive board. Pull the artwork away gently as you are pouring more lighter fuel along the gap. The lighter fuel will evaporate, leaving an apparently perfect artwork!
I'm not recommending these techniques, but offering a couple of "get out of jail" cards, a pack of which are handy when framing.

I have one use for sticky foamcore.

Sometimes I frame very intricate small oils on panels. Small as 120x150mm. I make the frames to fit the sight size so
that only about 2-3mm of the edge is covered. If if made them fit up to the rebate I would loose maybe 8mm off each
side which is a lot of acreage. On some of the bigger ones it would hide about £300 worth.
So when I come to fit them I drop them in the frame and hold them gently but firmly in place with tiny squares of sticky
foamcore stuck to the back of the rebate. Bit fiddly but does the job.

I have been asked to get rid of air bubbles which occured on a number of fairly large prints stuck down onto self adhesive board. There was no problem with these boards until they were stored in outdoor storage containers for a couple of years. Unfortunately these out side storage container were of transit containers and were not sealed against humidity, or damp.

My assumption was that the humidity got into the frames and the paper of prints expanded and perhaps the humidity, or summer temperatures weakened the bond between the prints and the self adhesive board. A small pin hole was made in each bubble using ento pins, which are pins used for pinning insects in place in framed displays of preserved dead insects, these pins are incredibly fine and the hole is close to invisible. The print and it's self adhesive board was then pressed flat and everything stuck down flat again.

At the time, I got quite a lot of work out of this, over a period of time. As it turned out, the owner of these these and other frames suffered a fire in his home and moved everything out of his house while the house was repaired. Just about all of the damage to his pictures was caused in the storage containers. The crafty storage company had protected themselves in the small print and did not have to compensate the owner at all.

One picture that was really bad, but not dry mounted was dried out while it was packed in silica gel. The silica gel was changed a couple of times and the worst of the cockling of the paper went down quite considerably. This picture was quite expensive and dry mounting was out of the question, so I was reframed as it was. I never heard any more about it, so I guess it was o.k.

The company who gave me the work normal got their work from insurance companies and bought silica gel sack loads at a time. There must have been about 100 plastic sacks of the stuff in the corner of their warehouse. It's horrendus stuff to work with, it get everywhere and takes months before you are no longer vacuuming the stuff up. Next time, no thanks!