The Framers Forum

Good morning and greetings from Canada. I picked up an ornate Victorian frame at a flea market. It needs significant restoration. I don’t plan to re-gild it as I like the colour that it is now, but I need to replace the missing bits and stabilize the rest of it. I have two questions. 1. What should I use to stabilize it? White glue diluted with water and painted on? 2. What should I use to clean it? Diluted acetone solution? I have already dry brushed it to get the worst of the yangers off.

Eventually I will cast the missing parts in water putty and attach them with gesso and then paint to match.

That is a bronzed powdered finish (silver color) on an 1890"s mass-merchandised frame. They were not an expensive frame when they were made and not valuable today. Yes, you can use diluted PVA glue; however, warm hide glue would be a better choice. You can get premade hide glue; however, it has preservative chemicals for shelf life.

Regarding the finishing, after the replacement parts are applied, matching the patina is a pain in the rear. It would be a lot easier to spray paint the silver color, seal the surface and then retone the entire frame.

There is a limit to what you can do to stabilize the remaining areas of the existing finish which to remain. Sure you can add something to bond the compo decor back to the wood (where you have access to squirt something in there, but what about the bits you can not get to.

Sooner, or later further areas will loosen and become detatched. Sorry to be blunt, but it's a lot of work, plus materials for little to none in terms of realistic benefit in doing it. If you are doing this just for the learning process and gaining experience, fair enough!

-yes, I am doing this as a hobby. Although, frames like this in better shape go for big prices in our antique shops.
-Small areas of damage and a well used aged look are actually desirable in this decorator market. I’m not interested in trying to make it look new.
-It is more economically viable to fix up a frame like this in poor shape then buy one in good shape (again, speaking locally).
-Yes, it is also a learning experience. Any technical advice greatly appreciated.
-I’m not likely to come across any priceless 16th century frames here in British Columbia. It’s all relative.



"The difference between America and England is that [North] Americans think 100 years is a long time, while the English think 100 miles is a long way." --Earle Hitchner

That's interesting. Is there a worthwhile market for items like this in your country? Assuming that there is, then it's not that easy for those of us who have little understanding of your local market, to suggest the best way forward in exploiting this market, but I think there will be a reasonable chance that we can answer meaningful questions as best we can.

I believe what you are calling "white glue" will be the same as what we call "PVA glue". This is a good easily available wood glue which may help you to re-secure any decorative detail, which is becoming detatched from the wood of the frame, but any remnants glue which are left visually exposed will tend to set as a glossy deposit. As such, it is therefore probably a good idea to remove any surplus glue to avoid any unsightly deposits.

I'm not sure that it is going to be worth trying to get any bonding agent to penetrate under any other areas of remaining decorative detail, since the outcome is not only not possible to be sure of, but may in fact have detremental and unforeseen consequences. I hope you will find this helpful.

Hi and Welcome Rrainea.

It's a challenge. Just as well you are doing it for love as it would involve a lot of work for a professional and thus a big bill.

I would avoid using PVA glue though. Once dry it won't accept paint or whatever on top too well. Any that oozes out the cracks
would cause problems I think. You might be better off trying the non-solvented type cartridge glue. The trick here is to try things
on a scrap piece before using it on the main thing.

Good Luck.

Rrainea wrote:Although, frames like this in better shape go for big prices in our antique shops.

Because an antique shop places a price on an item does not mean that it will sell at that price.
What is your definition of big prices?

A big price is one that I can’t afford!

Attached is one that I did for a friend. All four corners were missing so I sculpted them in, in a form that I thought matched the rest of the fancy frame, and rebuilt the other missing parts. The hand- tinted port is now out being photoshopped to remove the water stains. My friend is happy and I could have spent that time watching television. Ultimately it doesn’t matter why I do it, just asking for technical assistance.

That was supposed to say ‘portrait ‘ not ‘port’.

I think maybe we should be asking for assistance from you.

Nice work.

Many of us have dabbled in this dark art. Everybody has their own tricks. Some jobs can take 1/2 an hour and some
weeks on end. As long as it looks right and no loose bits.

That's a nice little frame and it looks like silver gilding from the photo. You asked about what solvent to clean. Well I would just use warm water and just maybe a little lemon juice. It already has a beautiful colour and patina and you wouldn't really want to alter that. The detail gilding is oil bound, so the water won't touch it. The inner sight edge looks water gilt, so I wouldn't touch it much at all.
As regards consolidating the ornaments, just leave them. Any bits that fall off with dry brushing can be glued back on with diluted PVA.
Good luck with the project.

Rrainea wrote:A big price is one that I can’t afford!

Yes, I know that you are a hobbyist and doing the project for fun and entertainment. The reason for the question is simple when you add up the costs of materials and supplies what is the real difference in the "Total Cost" of your project vs buying a better frame.

cheap damaged frame
cost of cleaners - these can vary based on the original finishes resistance to solvents. If you clean too deep, you have to refinish the total frame anyway.
cost of glue
cost of casting material
cost of molds to duplicate pattern
cost of sandpaper to clean up molded parts
cost of sealer for the fresh part
cost of misc disposables - masking tape etc.
etc.

and matching a patina of new parts to the old sections is a time-consuming skill not perfected in a few hours. I did gilding and frame conservation work for a living.

Thanks for the compliment Prospero! And thanks to the rest of you for your suggestions. Although this is not quite my first rodeo I have a lot more to learn. I am actually a wildlife biologist in real life and have considerably more experience catching bats and assessing moose habitat than making a mitre joint.

That portrait frame is a very nice job indeed, particularly as all four corners were missing. The new corners that you've created perfectly match the rest of the frame, congratulations! It's obviously a labour of love and why not Do come back and show us the finished version of the next frame you're going to work on. Personally I wouldn't know where to start!

Hi all, here is the finished project, completed over multiple episodes of ‘Law and Order ‘ reruns.

Wow! Thanks for showing us the finished job, it looks very impressive.

Beautiful job! very well done

Still struggling to find something wrong with it. Beautiful job!

Superb restoration and excellent photograph

Thank you for sharing.

Peter.

First Class Job.