The Framers Forum

I looking into buying a better router and creating items from templates. I have two rather aging 1/4" routers, which are probably 20 years old, or even more and they are not much like modern routers, which are probably easier to guide accurately compared to my two older and maybe not sufficiently powerful existing two routers. I am also thinking about what would be the best material to route flat profiles from for hand finishing.

I am wondering about using plywood, but I am not sure about the quality of finish that I will be able to obtain on the cut edges of the plywood. I will at times, need to bevel cut the edges of the plywood, but I'm assuming that I won't be able to use cutters fitted with guide bearings, because the plywood will not only probably be too thin, but also the bevel will need to cover the fully cut edge thickness of the wood.

I am still considering what material would be best to make the templates and for these I am also considering plywood, or cutting them from mountboard, or kraft type backing board. Any thought would be most welcome.

My thanks in anticipation,
Mark

In the old days tempered hard board AKA Masonite® was used due to its stability and smooth cut edges.

Any router that will accept this style of bushing will due.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DCT-Brass-Ro ... 2250847837

Two routers now over 20 years old - that's hardly out of the box! So what's wrong with using an MDF board?
If you did want to use plywood or other thin board for a full-thickness bevel, couldn't you just rout out the shape in thick MDF first and then clamp it under the board and use it as a template for a roller guided routing bit. Or am I missing something?

Mdf rather than plywood for me too.

Plywood would not leave a decent finish when routing in my opinion. Mdf can leave a sort of rough finish that needs sanding back. A good tip is after routing, give a quick sand, then brush on shellac which will soak in. Let it dry properly, then you will find you can sand to a good smooth finish before painting.

I am making a big cupboard for a customer and the doors are solid frames with panels i made with 25mm mdf run through a spindle moulder. I use plywood for panels not being shaped.

I make jigs from anything handy that is thick enough to allow guides to run against.

Nick

Panels on doors are 25mm mdf shaped. Although i used spindle moulder, it is only a larger router and you can buy router cutter to do this. I would not use ply for this, it would look rubbish.

In terms of new routers, i find it better to get better quality router cutters. Check out wealden tools. They make decent cutters. Trend are good, but there is lots of cheap rubbish out there.

Nick

P.s Still got plenty of work left on cupboards! There are book shelves to add yet as well! Will try to post finished job.

Looking good so far Nick.

I’ve just completed this project for my kitchen, the panels look very similar to yours! I used panels made of tulipwood jointed together. I then used my router table to shape them (many passes). They unit had to match the rest of the kitchen otherwise I might have gone for a simpler look.

Thanks everyone,

I like plywood particularly for it's long term stability and stiffness. I am also not particularly keen of the health hazards that have been connected to the machining of MDF. MDF tends to absorb moisture over then years and can swell, which may damage the finish that has been applied to it. It's also quite a bit heavier than plywood of the same diamentions.

Also for use in producing spandrels, where the material thickness may at times be limited, both the stiffness and long tern stability should be much better. I don't mind priming and sanding plywood to ensure an appropriate level of finish and I'm well equipped to do this, so I don't think that this will be much of a problem. I also like to stock plywood as i is my choice of board for making jigs, some tools, shop fittings, furniture and etc.

I also don't mind the extra cost, as I think that it is a superior material and produces a more durable and better quality of produced item.

Abacus,

The kitchen looks great. You must be pleased with that. I like the colour as well. Can i ask what colour it was? The kitchen i just finished was F & B mizzle which was a greeny blue (customers choice), but i would have much preferred that myself.


Tulipwood is good for panels, but i was being lazy. I have a panel clamp set up in my workshop, but getting timber is more awkward at the moment. This is the last room in this house for me. I have done the doors, windows, staircase, kitchen, other cupboards, and once this is finished, i move onto 40 windows in the house next door!

Fusion framer

Thanks.

The colour is F& B “Charleston grey”

I sold my spindle moulder specifically so I can’t make any more windows!

Hi Abacus,

I sometimes make little cabinets with doors and very often they are paneled doors, I really like the look that paneled doors create and I really like the look that your cupboard has. A lot of it is probably about the proportions, I have a book by Andrea Palladio which is titled "The four books of architecture", where the ratios of the different visual aspects of each design are defined as ratios, that work and look the most pleasing. Looking at your cupboard I would say that the ratios between the different parts are visually appealing.

I would guess that not everyone thinks that this has much importance in this day and age, but in some things it still makes a visual different, that adds something to the look and feel of certain things and I still like to think that there is a lot that still survives in these things, that causes so many people to want their homes to often have items that reflect back to an early era. For example, why are tabernacle frames still wanted in this day and age. I don't think that it's the religious connection in very many cases, traditionally there are particular ratios to how all the different features relate, such as there was a ratio of 7.5 to 1 between the height and the wide of the columns of the doric order and this tended to determine the aspect ratio of such a building, or even the making of a traditional tabernacle frame to a significant degree.

Does this degree of natural ratios and shape, still influence our natural thinking when making and designing things, well in many cases in may not be so obvious, but I think that it still creeps in, without us thinking about it directly. Some things just look right and customers will sometimes instinctively buy things that look right, although it may not occur to them what it is that makes one item look just right, while another item appears to lack that undefinable something which would complete that look that would otherwise cause people to want that as well. I think that the craftsman who makes many of these special things, often has an eye for what looks and feels right, which is perhaps why people will gets something which has been made by a craftsman, in preference to something that has been mass produced largely with economics being much more important than that natural look and feel.

Your cupboard looks great and for me a lot of that is connected to the inclusion of those paneled doors. How would it look with the plain massed produced boring looking doors that we see on so many off the shelf, flat pack items of furniture? To my mind something special would be missing. there is a lot about your cupboard that I like, I like the craftsmanship and the look of quality, but I especially love the look and the style so much. Looks great and looks just right too. Well done! No doubt the customer just loves it!

Thanks for the kind words Mark. My wife “the customer” was happy with the result. I don’t make these things to sell, just for ourselves. I enjoy learning new skills and techniques, and of course buying tools!

The design was based on this unit that we inherited with the house (although my wife painted it as it was originally yellow!)

Abacus

The kitchen unit is a really good match. The panels do look smart, but as you said in your first post, you may have chosen differently had you not been matching existing cupboard. I do quite a few jobs with similar panels to yours (like my current job).

I prefer a simple panel myself. I made a rather big wardrobe last year for a hotel i do jobs for, the remit being maximise the space. They wanted oak, but left design to me and i went for simple plain panels as the grain of the oak is the feature for me.
If you can do all you need without a spindle moulder (and a decent router table setup can do many of the jobs, just taking more passes), all the better. I have a power feed so my hands go nowhere near cutters, but it is still a frightening machine.

Thanks for posting photos btw, i always like seeing other peoples work.

Nick

Can’t beat oak. I made these for her indoors. Oak veneer panels, solid oak frames. Pull out shoe drawers.
I could look at other peoples projects all day long!

Oh those are exactly what we’re after. They look great. What a shame you’re so far away!