Purchasing Large Equipment

[jtremblay]

Hi - I am new to this forum

I have been framing for about 11 years now using cut and joined frames from my local distributer. 6 months ago I purchased both a Brevetti Jaguar saw and a Brevetti S-30 refurbished underpinner based on the advice of the seller Tech-Mark. We sent them all of the frames we used and the sizes. The selling price came with initial setup and training (1 day).

There was an issue trying to get a good join right off the bat. The installer thought the issue was the underpinner - he called the manufacturer and was told the Brevetti V Nails were defective so he needed to change out the cartridge head from the Brevetti to the AMP head. This took the rest of the day and half way into the next. This did not fix the bad joins. Another call into Brevetti and it was decided that the horizontal clamp on the saw was causing the issue - we were told to disable it. This allowed for molding that was flat and small to be joined well - but not any molding with any sort of curve to it. The tech then said we needed a second horizontal clamp for the underpinner and one was ordered. The second clamp did not fix the issue - We also discovered that the spacers were not working properly; spacers are suppose to be matched up to the V-Nail by size; they sit under the V-Nails in the machine. So a #7 spacer is used with a #7 V-Nail. The problem is the V-Nail would not shoot - so with trial and error we found that by using a different number spacer we could get the machine to work.

Brevetti informed us that we were using the Brevetti spacers with the AMP head which was wrong and they sent out a new set because the spacers were getting bent. This set also did not work well..When the vertical clamp of the underpinner was snugged down in order to hold the molding in place the cartridge head would not move back and forth. We resorted to clamping the molding, shooting a V-Nail, releasing the clamp, moving the head to the next location, re-clamping the molding, shooting another V-Nail...

One day the nails stopped shooting - Tech-Mark told us to flip the spacer upside down. The underpinner started shooting V-Nails again - but we were concerned that this must mean that the spacers were bending again - Brevetti thought we were using the spacers upside down the whole time, so sent a 3rd set of spacers - these were marked w/white paint on the top. This confirmed we had been using the spacers correctly all along. The new spacers were also different heights then the past 2 sets - Brevetti informed us they were making the spacers specifically to fix our "situation". We did a video chat w/Brevetti (Italy) and it was determined that the initial install of the AMP head was not done correctly. They told us the machine needed to be completely taken apart and it was too complicated for us to do - that Tech-Mark would need to do this. It was also discovered that the horizontal clamp on the saw that had been disabled was actually made for windows and doors - it was too thick; it needed to be thinner to sit under the rabbet of our moldings which 90% are 1/2" high. Brevetti said they would manufacture a special spacer for this application. Based on this information I asked Brevetti if the saw was intended for picture framing and he assured me that it was -

The issue: Tech-Mark said it was not feasible to come out to fix the underpinner - that customers need to be mechanically proficient or they need to hire local repair persons to take care of these types of issues. They suggested hiring a plumber -

Another snag in all this is Tech-Mark directed us to work directly with Brevetti - which is how we found out about the actual problem - Brevetti revealed that the saw was in perfect shape when they displayed it at a Trade Show in the US. I went back to Tech-Mark about the fact that they sold us a demo saw and we were told it was new; I copied Brevetti on the email - Brevetti got enraged and accused us of not wanting to fix the problem but instead just wanting to create problems - they told us that any emails we sent them in the future would go to SPAM and we were to work directly with Tech-Mark only.

With no way to get support for our "new" saw and our refurbished underpinner I contacted Tech-Mark and asked them to pick up the equipment for refund and we would start over with different equipment from a different re-seller - they said that is not how it is done - and then sent emails insulting us, telling us we needed our hands held etc.

So I'm asking the framing community; Is purchasing large equipment in this industry work pretty much this way: you purchase the equipment but then need to be able to tear it down and modify it in order to get it to work?

I apologize for such a long post; but we are at our wits end with all of this. Is this normal in this industry?
Any help would be greatly appreciated - j

[vintage frames]

Hello jtremblay
I know this is a UK forum and you're in America but I couldn't help being intrigued by your problem. I too have a Brevetti double mitre saw and it's a bloody good machine. First thing is forget about the clamps. I've had my machine for nearly 30 years and have never bothered with clamps.
Slow the blade advance speed down a bit, hold the moulding firmly down on the flat bed and against the back wall and cut.
The reason you're getting a bad join is because the moulding is twisting a bit whilst it is being cut. If holding it down manually is hard work, then use two cuts, the second being a shaving cut.
As for the underpinner, I'm not sure what's going on there, but one clue is that you mentioned pre-setting the vertical clamp to hold down the moulding. The clamp should be set about 10mm or so ABOVE the moulding, as you hold it in place before firing in the v-nail. Otherwise the machine can't breathe and carry out it's full cycle. I hope some of this helps and good luck with it all

[jtremblay]

Thanks so much for the advice - We actually received the new horizontal clamp pads today but unfortunately Brevetti machined them incorrectly so the mounting holes don't line up with the 2 screws that holds this in place. I will give your method a try and use the saw without clamps... I'm not sure I can slow down the saw, but I'll def. have a look

As for the underpinner: the horizontal clamp is raised and lowered with a hand screw mechanism. We were told to raise the clamp up so that when the air pressure is engaged (w/foot pedal) the clamp sits above the molding (not touching). We then are suppose to lower the clamp by turning the screw until it touches the molding, then give it about a 1/4 turn more. This allows for the correct pressure - the problem is the right piece of molding is snug (does not move) but the left piece slides back and forth. So we have to snug the horizontal clamp further down - until both sides being joined don't move. Then the lever that moves the cartridge head is now stuck and doesn't move. - We did a video chat w/Brevetti which is when they determined that the AMP head was not installed correctly - apparently the adjustment can only be done by disassembling the entire unit - This is why the spacers are not working - we are currently using the second set of spacers upside down... the last set doesn't work at all -

[vintage frames]

Hello again.
First let's talk about the saw. As I said on my previous post, forget about using the clamps. There should be a pressure adjusting knob which regulates the speed at which the blades move towards the moulding. On my Brevetti saw, it is a small brass knurled knob, on the right hand side and near to the compressed air inlets. Turning it, I can adjust the attack speed of the blades to the moulding. Too fast, and you're fighting with the machine. Too slow - is too slow! Either way, if your mitres aren't closing properly, then 90% of the fault is in the cut.
I have a Brevetti underpinner too but it's a different and more automatic machine. From what I can gather, your problem is that either the cartridge head is not seated properly within the machine, in that it should be just below flush with the main platter or-
the v nails are sitting proud above the top of the cartridge head - perhaps something to do with the spacers?
Either way, you should be able to hold down both mitred frame sides with the top clamp and slide the cartridge head freely underneath.
Operate the machine with just one frame side in place and see what is happening to jam the movement of the cartridge head.

[JFeig]

Jtrembley,

Let me first say that I understand your frustration. Did you receive any training from the saw manufacturer or distributor who sold you the machine?

If not, you need some hands on experience in the basic "hands on" workings of the the machine and how to make minor adjustments to the "speeds and feeds" of the machine. There is a learning curve to it and any industrial machines operation.

[jtremblay]

There was about a 1/2 day of training that was used for the saw and the underpinner (combined time) - We were not shown any way of slowing down the blade. Just how to feed the molding into the machine, and then we had a choice; we could use the foot pedal to engage both sets of clamps; horizontal and vertical, and then push both buttons on either side of the machine to make the cut (it's an enclosed double blade saw) OR we could just push both buttons which would engage the two sets of clamps and then make the cut.

Vertical Clamps: these move back and forth along a slot - so you can position them where they will hold the molding down best. Because the horizontal clamps were disabled we were relying solely on these to hold the molding down while making the cut. This is how we were instructed to use the saw. We encountered a problem, though as the vertical clamps would not hold down small thin moldings because they could not move close enough to the front of the machine (the slots were not long enough) - so Tech-Mark instructed us to file out the slots with a metal file so that the clamp would move closer to the front.

One other thing; the stops would not allow for smaller frames to be cut - so anything 8x10 or smaller could not be done. Tech-Mark contacted Brevetti who sent instructions to take a section of the front fence off - and the stops needed to be taken apart and re-assembled the opposite way to accommodate.

[vintage frames]

Look for the Air Flow Regulator Valve in your user manual. It should be a small brass knurled knob, located somewhere down either side of the machine. Tightening it will slow down the blade advance and loosening, speed it up.