The Framers Forum

Hi there

I wonder if anyone can help please? I have to frame a map which is 130 x 100cm and I've had it bonded onto foamex and covered it with acrylic. However the frame that the customer has chosen is bowing, even with the relatively light weight of this. I don't really want to go back to the customer and change the frame as I have already had to go back regarding one thing and don't want to lose face!
My question is- is there any way to reinforce the frame sufficiently to prevent bowing and enable hanging and also how do I attach the frame to a foamex board?

Any help would be massively appreciated - it's turning into the job from hell!

Many thanks

What is the moulding on the frame?

It is a Lion one - L1793

Why is the frame bowing? Is it the contents of the frame that's making the frame bow, or was the frame already bowed before the contents was added? Unless something else is a problem here, I am thinking that a chunky sub frame fitted into the back probably will pull everything back into line. On large frames any problems with accuracy with the mitre cutting can affect whether the frame will lie flat and if the same problem is also duplicated on the sub frome, you will probably have the same problem. If the frame has been cut on a Morso, this should not be the problem.

If the problem is related to the accuracy of the cutting of the mitres, pulling the frames straight with a sub frame may cause the original corner joints to open a little and need filling at the corners. Hopefully this will not be the case. Lion are a highly quility oriented company and have a very good reputation for their mouldings, I would also say that the size and proportions of that moulding should normally be quite adequate for a fairly reasonably sized frame, In this case you may just be a bit unlucky with this particular frame.

Some jobs can throw up problems, out of the blue, when we done everything right, without any thing having been done wrong, one can be just a random thing that's one of those things. Fortunately a sub frame will probably fix it for you. There are times when I will sometimes use a normal wooden battern from a hardware shop to make the sub frame, but the battern need to be solid enough and nice and straight as well. This often is simple and cheap option and avoids making a special order to you supplier, if it is not convenient at that time.

As has already been mentioned, I would use a subframe on this - PW219 from Wessex should fit nicely into this profile. I've got a similar job to do this week. If you don't want to go back to the customer then I would just write off the cost of the subframe but remember to include it next time. I would also give the customer a piece of subframe to fix to the wall to hang the picture from as a French cleat, otherwise you can bet they will hang it from a single picture hook and any subsequent problems will be down to you. Good luck!
https://www.wessexpictures.com/PW219.html

Thanks Mark and Jonathan for your replies - it's very kind of you. The issue is that the moulding isn't really strong enough for the weight of the artwork - my fault for not thinking of it before really.

When you say a sub frame - do you just mean a frame that fits into the current frame? So would I cut it so that it fits in snugly? Also, how would I attach it into the existing frame?

Thanks again.

Yes, It fits snugly into the back of the frame and you have fitted the backing board and taped the back to seal it in. It should look quite neat and it's worth getting a bit extra of the sub frame moulding just to have some in stock for next time. It's not always used for when the frame bows, but it's an easy way to beef up mouldings when a customer insists on a moulding which really needed to be a bit more solid and stronger.

There will probably be times when the frame has not bowed, but your instincts tell you to make things a bit stronger, so that the frame does not distort over the years. You will develop a feel for when you need to add a sub frame as times goes on and you won't need anyone to tell you, but you will know for yourself, it just an experience thing.

Fab - thanks very much.

If you look at the instructions on the Wessex link, you’ll see that it screws into the original frame giving a really strong combined frame, hence the reason for the slope on the sub frame

Just fire the staples holding the backing in, (behind the foamex) through the backing (at a slight angle ) into the frame, thus locking the frame and backing together, tape up, put double d-rings in the frames ,Justintime, will be along to post a picture of using two hooks in the wall, to reduce the weight of the frame,
bish bosh, job done

A sub frame would solve this, but it's an expensive option.

I would put another sheet of backing board in (or even 2 if necessary), these will need to be cut accurately, then, as Steve says use a staple gun instead of framers points to staple through the backing board and into the frame at about 40 degrees. If you use a staple with10 or 12mm depth this will pull the frame in (you'll have to hold it together as you staple). It helps if you use a wooden block on the outside of the frame whilst you staple.

I know this will seem like a really silly question, but I'll ask it anyway because I'd be interested know the answer

So do you make an actual frame with glued and underpinned corners, or do you just screw 4 mitred lengths to each of the sides? And how snugly should it fit - do you have to allow for possible expansion of the sub-frame within the outer frame?

If you are making a sub frame you will need to join the sub framed at the corners. Stapling the backing board in place would require you to have an adequate stapler and while there might be a possibility that this may work, I don't know what the chances are that I will work. I have various pneumatic stample and nail guns, but I don't have any experience of doing anything like this to solve this sort of problem, so I shall not comment.

I mainly use staple and nail guns for assembling stacked moulding frames and joining bits of woodwork, when I can hide either the staples, or nails from sight, when the whole thing is finished.

I'm not quite sure that I'm understanding this. Nobody has explained what has caused the frame to bow, as a result of this how do we know that a few staples are going to pull this whole frame back to being completely straight and how do we know that it will stay that way, have I missed something?

NYAF wrote
"'m not quite sure that I'm understanding this. Nobody has explained what has caused the frame to bow, as a result of this how do we know that a few staples are going to pull this whole frame back to being completely straight and how do we know that it will stay that way, have I missed something?"


Because if you hold the moulding in to the backing as you staple through the backing at an angle, on all four sides, the frame can not pull out from the backing, because the angled staples will not allow it

I have been doing this for over 25 years, never had one come back, also some are in public spaces , which I see often

Of course, 'prevention is better than cure' don't let the customer to choose a frame that is not up to the job in the first place

This has been a very interesting thread, thanks for starting it Framegirl, and thanks for the replies.

Interesting! I have never done this at all. I have a large collection of timber the previous tenant in my prepises left in an out building and I have various power saws, so I can easy cut some of this unwanted timber down to a suitable size to make batterns which can be joined to make a sub frame. I rarely ever think of doing otherwise. At the moment backing board is in short supply and I've needed to get some more, which should be arriving soon. I like to make each order of backing board last as long as possible, to keep an eye on my cash resources.