The Framers Forum

Hi Forum
I am new to this forum and have been reading the posts for few months and like the warm and informative responses the members leave to questions . Hopefully you will treat me the same I enjoy photography in my spare time and have framed some prints for family and friends using simple tools. I would like to move upto the next level and maybe sell some prints. I have scoured the internet and found many starts up workshop kits but I would like proper feedback from professionals who frame for living. What are the basics tools required to get me started with maybe £2000 to spend. I look forward to your replies.

Thanks
Gengus

As someone who is trying to get going, but on a limited budget I would suggest you to avoid the kits.

The best things to go for would be second hand equipment.

A Cassese underpinner costs around £300 - £400
A Morso could cost around £600 - £700
And if you wanted a board cutter (such as a Keencut) around £400

Most of these appear on Ebay fairly frequently.

Good luck.

Hi genguskarn,

Good advice from Woodward there. I would add that before setting out, you should get some tuition.

Welcome to the forum.

Hi
I am booked on a DIY Framing photography weekend in May which includes basic framing and mounting. Hopefully I will learn the basics and maybe get some advice on equipment.

Thanks

Genguskarn

welcome to the forum Gengus!
First bit of kit you need is a mount cutter. There is a good market for mounted (and unframed) prints.
Thats the way a lot of photographers get into this business.

Actually thats the way I got into framing, mounting up old "Punch" cartoons for reselling lol.

Genkus
take your time in finding a good framing course - this is a good place to ask for recommendations. DIY framing courses can often set your sights well below a good standard of both mounting and framing.

Hi there Gengus,

I'm new too.

Erm, thats it. Except you reminded me of something.

Ghengis Khan but Immanuel Kant (if I get booted I only have myself to blame...)

Peace and Respect
banjo

I am self taught but sorted most of my techniques by practicing, reading books (Lion do a good selection) and forums. Going down the Keencut, Morso & Cassese route is good advice as this equipment will make life so much easier. Not often a poor workman can blame his tools but I think it applies to framing. Profound aplogies to those still using stanley knife & hammers. Looking at some of the work that was done before the advent of pro board cutters fills me with awe.

Also if you buy decent equipment and then decide not to continue you should get a good sale price. My advice would be to keep clear of pneumatic equipment unles you envisage a good turnover.

Hi Gengus (any relation to bassist Mick, perchance ) and hi also to Banjo! Welcome to the Forum, people!

The Crofter wrote:.... Lion do a good selection...

Apologies if I'm preaching to the converted, but if you haven't already got your Lion catalogue, you can order one from their website. On top of the books they offer, the catalogue is an education in itself for the beginner (I'm only on the go for 2½ years myself).

Not thought about this before, but one piece of kit that I really would recommend to new framers is the Fletcher Lite-Grip (available from Lion). It is a godsend for making glass cleaning easier.

Enjoy the learning curve, and more importantly, enjoy participating in the Forum!

Hi Gengus, I'm another newie.
I've gone from week-end warrior to full time framer, after many years as doing both graphic design and fine carpentry work - both skills that I'm finding are dovetailing (no pun intended) very nicely in picture framing. I just love working with my mitts and my brain. I love learning curves, as far as I'm concerned we're all on one. This forum is quite amazing and I too hope to be part of it for a long time.
By the way, I've invested in a new Cassese CS55, a s/h Fletcher 2100 and a new Pilm 101. The Pilm is being replaced by a Cassese CS88, so the post re CS88 opening at the bottom was very timely. Until the CS88 arrives, I'm getting a loan of an Inglet M1800 - trouble is, will I prefer it?
Bye for now

So what courses would members recommend, has anyone been on one that they would recommend - or not recommend. I was tempted by the Lion course but is a day too short?[/quote]

bexwell wrote: I was tempted by the Lion course but is a day too short?

You are wise to seek opinions from other experienced framers about tuition! Some tuition can be detrimental.

A one day course could only give you a very limited amount of information, but would be better than nothing, if the info was up to date and according to currently accepted standards. A two week course would be more advantageous if available.

Don't be afraid to spend some money on tuition. It will be worth it even if you have to borrow!

Learning should continue on indefinitely while you are in this business. My experience is 23 years and I find that I learn continuously. I go to every trade show that I can and go to as many workshops and seminars as possible. I attended around 20 workshops and seminars at two trade shows in Las Vegas recently!

bexwell wrote:So what courses would members recommend, has anyone been on one that they would recommend - or not recommend. I was tempted by the Lion course but is a day too short?

Well you've gotta start somewhere and one day will enable you to cover the basics, but that's about it. The fact is that there is a lot of knowledge required to be competent at all levels of framing. Some of that will take quite a bit of time to acquire.

Lion have a very good name within the industry, so no doubt their course will be good. I don't know how easy the journey would be from your location, but as the A1 is nearer to you than the M1 you might find the journey to Pete Bingham worth looking at too.

Both Lion and Pete provide good training, but wherever you go why not discuss your training needs with them before you go and get them to advise you as to what can be adequately covered in what timescale.

The Basic Trade Framing course by Lion is excellent for anyone new to trade framing, apart from hands on use of professional equipment it's worth the money for the talks alone, (given by the MD, Martin Harrold) on how mouldings are made and the business of framing.

It's well worth considering one-to-one training courses. They may be a little more expensive than a group course, but one can move at one's own pace and, after an initial chat with the trainer, I'm sure that most if not all reputable trainers will be happy to tailor the training content to your specific area of interest, thus maximising the benefit of the course for your particular situation.

I understand the value of doing a course if you know nothing but I don't think it is absolutely neccessary. In fact I have seen many do expensive courses and still remain the pits. I have never done a course and yet I get other framers coming to me to ask how to do certain things. I think the most important is to have the highest possible commitment to quality workmanship and read these forums ( google continuously) and pm people for solutions to problems. You have obviously seen how forthcoming this bunch of superb framers are with advice - both serious and light-hearted

I agree with Alan. In my old job we had compulsory Continuing Professional Development to maintain our registration, I and my colleagues reckoned that about 95% of the course content we knew already so most of the time it was reassurance that we derived from them - ie we were up to date. The best part of a course is often coffee time or lunch so you can ask others how they tackle a problem - which is why this forum is so good - virtual coffee time!

Since I can use my Morso, underpinner and mount cutter competently and obtain consistently good results and won't settle for less, I really want a course that goes a bit further than that and helps me understand how the more complicated designs are put together especially since most of the time customers want fairly straightforward designs and frames, unless you are a burglar it is quite difficult to see what goes on their wall and what others do so inspiration and raising your game become quite difficult.

Probably the most important type of education that framers need is to do with methods and materials.

If incorrect materials and techniques of mounting are used, then our customers precious items will be damaged! This is the most serious part of our business! If a joint has a small gap or a mat has an overcut, or the design doesn't look awesome, that will not cause the artwork to be damaged, but any incorrect material used or technique is used, the artwork can be destroyed over time!

Techniques and materials used, is the number one area that framers need to learn, above everything else!

Sorry Ormond but let's chuck this one around a bit!

If a joint has a small gap or a mat has an overcut, or the design doesn't look awesome

These to me are the most NB. I go into a gallery or exhibition and the first thing I look at is the visible workmanship and not the physical attributes of the materials. The paying public see the exact same things as me and who will be prepared to pay good money for a job that looks the pits irrespective of archival quality. As honest artisan I will use the best materials possible to protect the customer's property but they are not going to protect my pocket if the work is crappy ( even if I tell them ... but the materials are perfect and will last forever)

With my above post I am certainly not degrading the taking of a course or two. It just needs to be the right stuff if someone feels the need for it. Despite being in this business for 15 yrs I have learnt a hell of a lot reading info and arguments here and this is like doing a micro course every day or so.

Ormond's point is that less than perfect presentation will not destroy artwork but bad practice/materials will, that's all.

Just extremes.

The presentation is the easy bit - eliminating those gaps and overcuts - simple - just don't let work go out with any in - better still - don't make any!

Perfect mitres, no mount overcuts - artwork backed with Emdyef and secured with M mm mmmm mmmm mmmmaaa mmmmmaaaassss

k-k-k-k-k-kkk-

Sorry 'bout that.

See it all the time - customers don't know what brown bevels mean - or 'D' rings in the backing board or - or -or -or - etc.

Those that have gone out of their way to ensure that what is out of sight is not out of mind won't be letting poorly presented things go out.