The Framers Forum

Hope all you garage framers and those of you who started in a garage can help me out please!

Heres the pictue 18' x 8' garage. Equipment to be incorperated into layout are Morso, Cassese CS79 underpinner & Keencut Ultimat 48" mountcutter.

My question is what would be the minimum size of work surface for the cutting of mountboards, backboards, glass and assembling the frame
I dont mind moving the mountcutter out of the way to cut the glass and assemble frame.

I'm eager to finish my workshop but workbench is causing me a real headache, any ideas much appreciated.

Would I get away with a assembly and cutting surface measuring 48" x 48".
I need to incorporate other work surface's and storage down one side

Gary
I've converted my single detached garage (with flat/sloping roof) and can go into the details of what I have done if you think it would be of help (dry lining/insulation/ventilation etc).
I have an orteguille guillotine (like a morso), sysem 4000 sheet cutter, a CS88 underpinner being delivered on Friday (replacing the Logan studio joiner), fridge freezer five bikes a turbo trainer! (cylcists will understand) and other stuff in there. It's a bit "tight" but I've still managed to build in a work bench which gives a work surface of about 1m x 2m which is about the largest I could afford (space wise) and the minimum practical to place and use the mountcutter on. With tight space it just makes it really important to be a tidy and clean worker. There's some shelving and some racking for moulding length. Full size mountboard is stored flat underneath the worktop. If you want more details on what I've done then let me know and I will pass on whatever may help you. I had to work it all out for myself and seem to have not blundered too much.
Steve

Steve, that will be a great help if you could give me some idea

thanks

Mr Bojangles wrote:Steve, that will be a great help if you could give me some idea

thanks

Gary, give me your e-mail address via a PM and what you need to know and I'll oblige mate..

Steve G

Mr Bojangles wrote:I dont mind moving the mountcutter out of the way to cut the glass and assemble frame.

Hi Gary,

Fwiw, I'd recommend finding a good spot for the mountcutter and leave it there. You could perhaps organise your workflow to cut mounts in batches, and set them to one side. Then perhaps you could use the area to the right of the mountcutter as a glass cleaning area, and the other side as an assembly area (or vice versa, depending on your particular situation).

You may find it helpful to have a little shelf or similar very near to your assembly area to park your point drivers, hand tools, tapes, fixings, and so forth: that will help to keep the workbench clear and enable you to get the best from the space. As Steve rightly says, it's important to discipline yourself to keep the workbench tidy as you work.

Another way to "batch up" your tasks would be to make a series of frames and then do all the taping and fixings for the batch in one hit. That way, you should be able to keep the relevant tools and sundries beside you as you work through the batch, then clear them away at the end.

When choosing where to site my underpinner (a CS-88), I found it helpful to use a metal tape measure to check clearances for larger frames (e.g. 2m lengths).

From a bench size perspective, 3' ain't bad widthwise, but I'd recommend trying to make it as long as the space will allow.

Hope this is useful to you, and best of luck with the build!

Make that a CS-88 (BBCode whoopsie on my part. )

As you know, Gary, I've probably got a bit more space than you (having a double garage) but I made all my worktops out of 19mm MDF cut in half so they are 4ft x 4ft.

I did this because:

:: B&Q will cut an 8x4 sheet in half with no charge

:: I can 4 x 4 sheets into the car

:: I thought they'd be small enough to move should I need to

The other thing I've done with my main workbenches is to use 2 sheets of MDF for the top. The bottom sheet is fixed and edged with 2x1 timber. The top sheet drops into the 2x1 frame. This means that when it gets damaged or worn I can flip it over or replace it easily (at least, that's the theory).

The other consideration is that you might want to store mountboard under the bench in the future - in which case you'll want to ensure that the worktop is large enough to accommodate a standard sheet - so it needs to be at least 48 inches deep and 34 inches clearance underneath.

Hi Aine

Thanks for the info. I'm looking at making the length of bench the full width of the garage (8 foot) and 3' in depth sounds a very good idea. The only trouble with this design would be that i could only work from one side and not several. With your experience could you see this causing a problem.

WelshFramer wrote:
The other thing I've done with my main workbenches is to use 2 sheets of MDF for the top. The bottom sheet is fixed and edged with 2x1 timber. The top sheet drops into the 2x1 frame. This means that when it gets damaged or worn I can flip it over or replace it easily (at least, that's the theory).

I like this idea Mike

Gary, if it's possible within your space, I'd be more inclined to keep the workbench so that you could have access along the length, and at least one side of the width. From my experience it certainly makes the bench area more versatile, and helps enormously when assembling larger frames.

Gary
Posted a PM but this is becoming an informative discussion which certainly would have helped me so to repeat myself (apols!).. I worked out the space I wanted (laid the mountcutter out on an open floor with the largest mountboard it could take) then considered that against the space I could afford whilst still being able to move around. The result is a comprimising 2m x 1.2m which I can stand at along the front and at the left hand edge. I have to put the mountcutter away when not in use but it just sits on a shelf above the bench. Another handy shelf above has all the hand tools/sundries/fixings etc and I built the bench with storeage underneath which includes a flat storeage cubby for full size mountboard. You really do have to consider your workflow when space is restricted but it makes you disciplined. My guillotine is butted up to the right edge of the bench (height of bench is exactly same as guillotine table) so the bench acts as a left support when chopping. This is the only worktop space I have and manage well.. I've just done some rugby shirts which are 110cm X 75cm and managed that ok(albeit with some diligence). The system 4000 I was lucky enough to find second hand is also a great help, worth splashing out on if you can get it in there, saves farting about trying to cut larger sheets on the work bench too. Whatever you do with limited space will be a comprimise but just give it all plenty of thought first.
Steve G

Given the amount of space I would go across the 8 ft with a 4ft wide board which will give you ample space for assemblt etc. Fix your mount cutterr on the far left of the bech with a couple of wooden blocks and square it accurately once fixed you can then move it if necessary but taking the left hand arm off will leave the rest of your bench free. You then only need reattach it when cutting mounts. Use the underbench for mount card storage. But store the mount board on wood not the concrete floor.It would also be useful to carpet the rest of the floor and buy an inexpensive dehumidifier to keep the area damp free.
Place your Morso agains one of the remaining 14ft. walls leaving access both ends of the machine.You could leave the overrun on your workbench to accomodate the 10 ft moullding lengths.
Shelve the other wall to hold moulding lengths and position the underpinner somewhere in the middle space.Lion sell some tripods with rubber rollers which will support your moulding whilst pinning.
Should you have sufficient access you might think of using the far end for a wall mounted cutter Fletcher make a good one as do Keencut again from loin tabmaster framers equipment or wessex.
Trust you end up with a serviceable workshop that meets all of your needs.

this is our old workshop


as you can see we made use of three 8x4ft and one 6ftx3ft bench. Now obviously we dont have that luxury of space, so when we moved we chopped down the 8x4 benches into 4x4 "modules" -Wow! Welsh framer is right! 4x4 is a spot on size
Our current workshop

Its amatter of preference, but we have always gone for carpeted tops. Some people dont like them because they claim they can harbour glass chips etc. So we take them off an beat them, and there is always the workshop vacuum cleaner

Pretty much the only changes weve made to the work benches have been light coloured tops, which makes it far pleasanter to work in.

Anyone who has visited us will agree that considering what we have in a cramped space (2 compressors, almost all the mouldings, all the mountboard, an underpinner, spare compressor, system 4000,morso, and the wizard, (which isn't exactly dainty) you can get a lot of equipment into a modest space and still have room to stretch your legs if you have regular clean-ups.
I'de estimate that our main workshop is about the size of a 1 and a half car garage
You can see a couple more workshop pics, which might give you some ideas what to do (or what NOT to do!) on our website by following the sig at the bottom of this post.

Maybe the pics might give you some ideas? (see about us page)
Have good weekend!!!
Kev

You may like to see if mounting the board cutter vertically (ish) is an option. This works well for me and makes for very comfortable operation.



Also do not underestimate how much mountboard, backing, glass and other sheet products you will accumulate. My workbench is now completely stuffed. Note the sacrificial mdf sheet on top which is also level with the underpinner on the far side. Saves having a dedicated space and I can use the bench top for full size 1.2m x .915m frames. Incidently the left hand support for the morso mates with a small hole cut in the office wall so that full length mouldings can be chopped.

Thanks for all the info at least its give me an idea of the way forward.

That's a very clean and orderly looking layout Kev. It makes mine look like a right midden. So I am too ashamed to post a piccy.
It is about 18x8'6" however. Maybe I'll draw a plan.......

Kev & Pat thanks for posting the pictures, it really helps with me designing my workshop. Both your workshops look very impresive.
Maybe I'll post a picture of mine when it's complete and then I will be open to some constructive critiscm which may help fine tune the project

This is after I tidied up.





To be fair, this is a 'mucky' workshop where I do all frame-making and hand-finishing. I have another clean(er) room for mountcutting and assembly. But there would be room for mountcutting gear and mountboard storage with no hand-finishing and better housekeeping.
Somewhere under all the crap is a compressor and a hardbed press (unemployed).

btw. The ceiling is 8'6". Over the door there is room for two shelves for moulding as well as the ones near the Morso. I keep the most used stuff there. There's more in my 'warehouse'. (caravan).

crikey, Prospero. Thats considerably tidier than ours after we have cleaned up

Makes a "garage dweller" like me just want to curl up and hide under a stone...