The Framers Forum

I don't cut mounts.
In fact I don't even know how to cut mounts.
If i need a mount, then I'll go to a trusted framer who I know is able to supply the mount I need.
If I had needed a multi-aperture mount then if that framer didn't have a CMC then I'd be inclined to look for a commercial printer or other who might have that sort of gear.

My point is that reading this (very interesting) thread, I can see people tying themselves up in knots over how to charge.
Gesso&Bole has summed it all up the best.
You wouldn't give the job to someone who has just a manual mount cutter. He'd be freaking out worried that he f**ked up the last window, as Gesso&Bole pointed out. He'd have to be pricing in that risk.

The obvious place is someone with a CMC and because he has a CMC you would expect him to charge a price related to the time the job takes, not some sort of compensation for the money he's had to invest in the machine.

Yes and as Jim rightly pointed out their hourly rate would be higher as replacement costs of the equipment a built into the hourly rate.

Any business seeking a return on their investment isn't asking for "some sort of compensation", that's an unfair characterisation

It's the cost to do the job that counts. In the case of additional windows for those that use a CMC, that cost can be worked out based on their investment. For others like myself that cost is calculated by time primarily.

As you pointed out, you don't cut mounts. I suspect if you did, your pricing would be very much based on what it costs you to do them, not how long it takes. Does anyone here price moulding based on the time it takes to cut and join? Time is a factor, but by no means the only one.

A good locksmith will charge you more and get you in the house quicker than a bad one (Not a perfect analogy, I know)

As an aside Dermot - your frames are stunning!!

Hi iorek
Thank you for the compliment. Delighted to hear it and to recognise yet another framer with impeccable good taste.

I was trying to get the point across that instead of being too prescriptive about working out a per window cost on the mount, why not just include the job into the business hourly rate, ie if it takes an hour for the CMC to do a job, then that's the cost to the customer.

If I were to bring that job to a framer with only a manual mount-cutter, I'd expect him to be truthful and warn that it would take many hours and cost a lot for him to do that job. He would even suggest that he would have to sub-contract to another framer with a CMC.

The customer came to Justin's workshop, not because he had a CMC or whatever, but because he presents as a capable and skilled picture-framer who would only charge a rate that the average customer can relate to.

Whereas with me, my knowledge of picture-framing can be a bit limited but my ignorance of running a successful business is infinite.