self adhesive boards

dougie · Post by **dougie** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 10:39 am

new here so hi everyone,im having problems with adhesive boards not sticking too good,my workshop is a bit on the cold side,will this affect it?had a couple of pieces returned with bubbles and reluctant to use it till i figure it out,any advice would be welcome. ps. any one had to do an ordanance survey map that comes flat with a funny coating both sides?nightmare

Post by **John** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 10:55 am

Hi Dougie

Welcome to the forum.

We often use our press (flat bed) to help bond items to the sticky board, specially for anything that is well creased, or seems a bit 'plasticky' that we feel might not adhere too well with just the roller.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 11:04 am

Hi Dougie and welcome to you!

What type of board are you using at present? I have found that, of the boards I've tried, some have a much higher grab than others (Arqadia's Fastmount Permanent in particular).

dougie · Post by **dougie** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 11:16 am

cheers for them,unfortunatley dont have a press yet,something to look at,been using xtra-tak and fastmount and had probs with both

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 11:55 am

Dougie, have you tried dry mounting stuff in a location other than your workshop?

Not your average framer · Mon 28 Apr, 2008 12:42 pm

dougie wrote:new here so hi everyone,im having problems with adhesive boards not sticking too good,my workshop is a bit on the cold side,will this affect it?

Hi Dougie,

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, all self-adhesives are to some extent subject to variations in perforance with variations in temperature. Perhaps the manufacturer may be able to supply you with some kind of data sheet to help you.

Also you should be aware that all self-adhesive products have a shelf life and old stock can become a problem to you.

dougie wrote:had a couple of pieces returned with bubbles and reluctant to use it till i figure it out,any advice would be welcome.

Where I was trained they used self-adhesive mountboard for almost all dry mounting, but they always put it into a heated press at 60 degrees. This not only helped the adhesion, but also resulted in driving out any trapped air by expansion. After cooling any remaining air shrinks with the drop in temperature to even less.

Something seems to happen to self-adhesive boards in a heated press which appears to increase the bond strength.

dougie wrote:any one had to do an ordanance survey map that comes flat with a funny coating both sides?nightmare

Some rolled Ordinance Survey maps are specially printed to order by a wide format ink-jet printer. The surface coating on ink-jet papers can be problematic with self adhesive mountboards if not applied in a heated press. The paper tends to lift, perhaps because it may be trying to return to the rolled state in which it was supplied.

It is worth noting that self-adhesives are not refered to as pressure sensitive adhesive for nothing. This is because the bond strength can be greatly dependant upon the degree of pressure applied at the time of application. This is why roller presses are popular with so many who use self-adhesive mounting.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 5:06 pm

the cold does not hep at all. Other than warming up the board or keeping it somewhere warm dont have much of a suggestion to help with that one.

Lots of pressure, and warmth from your hands (use the release paper on top if rolling etc) can help.

Agree that the one which seems to have the best overall grab is Arquadia. Very useful. And very permanent - it keeps my restorer in work he says

A customers poster (rolled) once rolled over the workbench anmd attached itself firmly to a scrap of the stuff

Crescent also do an acid free (conservaton it says on the box) version, which has a very good grab as well. Available from wessex or your usual suspects.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 5:18 pm

kev@frames wrote:A customers poster (rolled) once rolled over the workbench anmd attached itself firmly to a scrap of the stuff

Oh nightmare, Kev!

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 6:14 pm

it was a nightmare for sure when i got the restorers bill

osgood · Post by **osgood** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 8:07 pm

kev@frames wrote:it was a nightmare for sure when i got the restorers bill

I keep a small bottle of 'Un-do' which is a liquid that dissolves adhesives. I have used it for getting stickers off the back of photos and it would probably have done the trick for you with that accident. Perhaps you might be able to get some in the UK somewhere.
Someone on The Grumble suggested that Naptha or lighter fluid might also work. Must get some and give it a try.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 9:14 pm

yeah i have heard of Un-Do (seen it on the grumble). But not found any here, yet.

I do have some zippo fluid, but i wasn't happy experimenting with it on someone's job.
I find its less complicated to come out with my hands up, step into the searchlight and tell them I'm having it professionally restored

once, in the olden days, i had a biro mark taken off a photo, which i thought must have been someone's fault at our end. When the customer picked it up, he was amazed that I had "had it fixed" for them. He'd brought it in like that with a biro mark on.....
"all part of the service", says I through gritted teeth.

Spit · Post by **Spit** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 9:22 pm

Zippo fluid works fine where the adhesive is thin (labels & the like) and certain tapes. With heavier duty tapes like duct tape and some masking tapes while it thins the adhesive and allows you to remove the tape, it doesn't necessarily remove the adhesive - you can be left with a sticky residue that gets everywhere! A lot depends on the surface too - glossy ones are obviously easier than others.

fineedge · Post by **fineedge** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 9:58 pm

Lady friend once came into the work shop, we chatted, she counted out her money and put it on workbench, we chatted, she left, I forgot about money and carried on working with mounts and later discovered the money lying on sticky board ready for use (release paper off). Tore one R50 note to bits

Roboframer · Post by **Roboframer** » Mon 28 Apr, 2008 10:12 pm

fineedge wrote:later discovered the money lying on sticky board ready for use (release paper off). Tore one R50 note to bits

You were a bit slow there - you shoulda carefully cut around it, stuck another to the back and put an elastic band around it - passed it off as a wad.

kev@frames · Post by **kev@frames** » Tue 29 Apr, 2008 12:17 am

fineedge wrote:.......Tore one R50 note to bits

thats almost a pound

dougie · Post by **dougie** » Tue 29 Apr, 2008 6:55 am

cheers for the answers,have been using a hot air gun to warm the card on smaller pieces,seems ok but wasnt sure if that would affect the adhesion

fineedge · Post by **fineedge** » Tue 29 Apr, 2008 10:49 pm

thats almost a pound
_________________

just over 3 at current rates. Hell we all know we got mickey mouse money over here!

Bill Henry · Post by **Bill Henry** » Wed 30 Apr, 2008 3:01 pm

dougie wrote:any one had to do an ordanance survey map that comes flat with a funny coating both sides?nightmare

It sounds like it has been coated/sealed with a material similar to what we call Tyvek – a material that is often used in housing construction. This material is frequently used for nautical charts.

The material is virtually waterproof, designed not to tear, and, I think, it is also has a fire retardant chemical in it. One can fold it easily and, once unfolded, the “creases” aren’t quite as permanent as they would be if it were paper.

If this what I am thinking of, placing it in a heat press will compound your misery. Under heat, it crinkles so much that the surface is distorted. Once done, I have found them nearly impossible to flatten.

Moglet · Post by **Moglet** » Wed 30 Apr, 2008 3:20 pm

Bill Henry wrote:It sounds like it has been coated/sealed with a material similar to what we call Tyvek ...

Tyvek is also used for printed labels on plants in nurseries.

Years ago, a company I worked for supplied a dot matrix printer to a local nursery for a plant label printing application, and we had to specially source printer ribbons with an acidic ink that would etch the printed characters into the Tyvek surface. Regular ink just beaded on it. Wouldn't surprise me if there were adhesion problems when trying to drymount the stuff.

Steve Goodall · Post by **Steve Goodall** » Thu 08 May, 2008 6:55 pm

Reference Un-Du... Manufactured in the "good ole" USA - highly toxic - cannot be shipped (legally) into Europe - pity really - the smell alone gets you as "high as kite".

Reference Adhesive Board... Contact Hot Press 0117 958 6500 & ask for a sample of their "Stikiboard" - yes it really is called that!!! It is very high tack & does not "pretend to be repositional" - you touch your work down & it is stuck - but that is what you want & need.

Reference PMA... Made by 3M. Only available up to 16" wide. Designed for "office applications" rather than professional use. Hot Press do a product called Double sided mount film - available upto 51" wide - again - ask them for a sample...

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