To chop or not to chop

[NTG999]

Hi all, I have been analysing the service from some of our suppliers. Before I begin it does go against the grain for me - I feel we buy mouldings at a (low) price cut frames, and assemble. Paying approx double for something I could do, doesn't seem good sense.
But.....looking in to it, I had a job that was an expensive moulding using just over 3m, I would have to order 2 lengths, granted the remainder is mine but a big expensive moulding job doesn't come in all the time and if it did I would probably need to order again and would it match? In total I have ordered chop 3 times and the cut mouldings have been perfect
Slightly regrettably the conclusion I have come to is that you should order chop
If big and expensive and you won't use that moulding again very soon (within 3 months)
If bad value length wise, e.g. just over 3 metres
In fact you could reverse it and by default order chop for every job except the dozen fast moving mouldings you keep in stock?

I am sure this could be controversial?? But imagine how tidy your stock room would be......

[Justintime]

I agree, I've been working on this premise for a while now. It's purely down to cost of goods incl delivery. Some suppliers have added a separate chop delivery cost recently, whereas I used to be able to add a chop to a length order and only pay one delivery charge. Yesterday a 2.8m chop incl delivery came to the same as the (minimum order) 6m pack, so I bought a pack! If a chop is close to price of a stick, I'm going chop because there's going to be some wastage on that stick. Suppliers are much more inclined to replace an imperfect chop and only give you a reduction in cost of the stick. Business is down for me this year, so it's more important than ever to keep cost of goods and expenses down, reduce stock and work smart!

[prospero]

You have to crunch the numbers. If you have a job that requires two sticks of an expensive moulding and
you are left with say 6ft, then that bit is essentially scrap, especially if it's a wide one.
It may have cost £30, but in practice you are never going to see your money back. You can't take it to
Tescos and exchange it for groceries.

But if the price of two sticks exceeds to price of buying it chopped then it's a no-brainer.

[JonathanB]

Chop is a no brainer for me. I keep a range of about a dozen mouldings that I use regularly and buy them in lengths. Everything else is chopped. It’s cut down on waste, and if I (rarely) get a dodgy chop order it’s replaced next day. I’d got a bit hung up on the idea that as framers our job is to cut and join frames, but with my business head on, I wish I’d done is sooner.

[Justintime]

Incidentally, with regards to price of jobs, I have just done a few comparisons between length and chop on the framiac software. Once wastage for length is added (mine was set at 50%(!) by default) prices are very similar. Obviously profit is lower as there is less labour factored in, but helps the price disparity when selling length or chop, which I've never thought was right. When I used Estlite there was always a big disparity between the two.

[fitz]

I agree with all on this.. I use chop for larger expensive mouldings. You are generally guaranteed that the moulding will be flawless and they always arrive in good nick. Am I right in thinking there is one main chop service provider though, namely Lion?

[Justintime]

LJ do excellent chop, stamped for QC too.

[JKX]

For me, chop service was for anything too wide or high for my Morso, plus aluminium - I hardly showed a thing too high or wide.

I did the maths a few times on particularly expensive mouldings and it worked out, every single time without fail, that whether the frame could be made from one length, or if only three sides could, I’d still have at least twice the outlay and would still be better off even if I tossed the the length less one leg in the second case, so I thought that’s a no from me.

Stock got ridiculous over the years though; I had FIVE shelf areas like the ones shown below, on three walls in the workshop, in a landing between workshop and corridor leading to the shop and in that corridor. At times there would also be a few vertical stacked areas too, stuff put aside “just for now”

During lockdowns I got the lot down, anything less than full lengths never went back, offcuts were either made in to ready mades or tossed. I entered all that went back in to my pricing software and covered the wall behind the sales counter with only those samples - and would never offer any others unless requested. That would have been great if I didn’t retire soon after. I gave the lot away to a framer (and forum member). They filled a horse box!

Don’t be like me!

Given my time over I’d have stock of only a selection of plain woods for hand finishing (and of course plenty more room to do that, and more!) plus some basic fast moving stuff. Not even half of any shelf area I had, the rest would be chop.

Regards pricing, pre software I based aluminium chop on the chop price and made no adjustments for less time and no wastage. I never sold much!

With software, if I entered a chop code the price came out less than the length code. I realised it was actually correct but thought no, I couldn’t have two prices for the same thing, so I simply entered the code for length. Guess what? I sold lots of aluminium after that!

[NTG999]

A couple of thoughts
In my previous career before I came back to framing we worked from a large unit and half of it filled up over time with 'things that will come in handy' I had the idea of clearing the space; we threw everything away, turning it in to a self contained unit, this cost me about £4k, I then rented it for £10k a year. It was costing me £10k a year to keep stuff!
Many years ago I met a plumber to the rich & famous (not me), after every job he threw everything away, a bit extreme but the more you think about it not a bad system.....