The Framers Forum

Evening and Happy New Year
I’m floating a large piece of artwork 100x100
I’m using hedgehog method (only done it twice before on smaller pieces) and get the feeling from the more experienced framers here that it’s a preferred method.
Was wondering many Anchors versus Bridges one would use per edge or what space between each is the general rule ?
Are the Anchors always positioned nearest the edge of the artwork and Bridges in between ?
Your opinions/views would be greatly appreciated
Neal

I’ve never used the method exactly as shown/described, mostly because it assumes factory produced pre-gummed tapes and I’d use handmade tissue hinges and starch paste. So I just call it the “fall out method” and all hinges have slight movement because the tissue is more flexible than tapes.

On that size I’d be using 8 ply board at least with hinges 4 or 5 inches apart.

It should be mentioned that the float method of mounting is not really the ideal way to mount paper-borne
artwork. Especially large stuff. It may stay reasonably flat or it may go wavy an curl away from the mounting
board at the edges. That's something that can't really be 'cured'. The traditional window bookmount is the best way.
You should acquaint the customer about the possible outcome.

Can we gather that the 100 x 100 dimension is cm's? As such, where are you going to have the window mount cut from such that there will be sufficient width to support everything?

The tapes can be anything from 5 to 10cm apart, depending on the size of art. The gap between the tapes is where the dropout is taped back into position so it's leaving room for that.

At that size my concern would be strong enough tape and the outside mount supporting the dropout weight plus artwork, therefore causing trouble when fitting into the frame from the back or side over a spacer.

Lineco gummed tape is frustrating, a teeny tiny amount too much water and it refuses to stick. With the bridges on the sides and bottom you've only got 5mm or so for the tape to grip the edge of the art. For that reason, if the customer isn't too worried about longevity or the archival nature of it, I use a more reliable self adhesive ph neutral tape for the top anchors on heavy work.

Instead of using a tiny rolled tube of glassine paper, I've found a cocktail stick works better to form the bridges. Pulling the stick out from under the tape before the gummed bit goes off and sticks... if it wants to stick, urgh.

I don't use anything to form the space for my bridges. (Un-nesessary fiddling about just slows me down). Just a double fold forming a flatted Z shape in my tissue hinges and applying the cooked wheat starch paste to the areas clear of the double fold, with a cotton bud, afterwards the cotton bud goes in the waste bin (saves time). The double fold has no paste on it and freely expands when necessary, as the artwork wants to expand.

The tissue for the hinges need to be very thin to freely at the expand at the Z fold as needed.

.

Not your average framer wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jan, 2024 12:05 pm I don't use anything to form the space for my bridges. (Un-nesessary fiddling about just slows me down). Just a double fold forming a flatted Z shape in my tissue hinges and applying the cooked wheat starch paste to the areas clear of the double fold, with a cotton bud, afterwards the cotton bud goes in the waste bin (saves time). The double fold has no paste on it and freely expands when necessary, as the artwork wants to expand.

The tissue for the hinges need to be very thin to freely at the expand at the Z fold as needed.

Good thinking. I need to try that.

Do you use plain paper tape from lj and coat that with the starch?

No, most plain paper is not acid and lignen free, also strength is often important! It's the right combination of light, flexible and strong tissue that is apropriate for the job in hand. I get a customers wanting old postcards, old photos and book prints to frame. These are good for business, and it is profitable to conservation frame these. The hedgehog method for framing in a box frame and the pedestal method when close framing against the glass are my usual go to methods.

What sort of tissue do you use Mark, and where do you get it?

What’s the against the glass method all about?

When I was open I used to buy packing tissue from a local wholesaler, it's used for packing antique, collctibles, items of lace and things like that. I used to buy most of my packaging related items from them and did so for years. They were older stock in non metric sizes and made me a offer I could not refuse.

Against the glass, just where the artwork cannot touch the glass, because it's spaced away from the glass inside the layers of the pedestal mount.

Not your average framer wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jan, 2024 5:48 pm I bought a packing tissue from a local wholesaler, it's used for packing antique, collctibles, items of lace and things like that. I buy most of my packaging related items from them and have done so for years. They were older stock in non metric sizes and made me a offer I could not refuse.

Against the glass, just where the artwork cannot touch the glass, because it's spaced away from the glass inside the layers of the pedestal mount.

I'll have a go at making my own with cooking up starch paste.

I had to re tape a couple of failed hinges today done with the Japanese lineco gummed tape. So frustrating.

Yeah, the tape I meant is a Japanese style acid free variety without an adhesive. I think LJ were selling it, but I can't seem to find it just now...

bang wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jan, 2024 9:10 pm I'll have a go at making my own with cooking up starch paste.

How do you cook starch paste, where do you get it from - and the tissue for the hinges, and how do you make those hinges?

Japanesse tissue is the best, it uses long grain fibres and the source of the fibres is from a particularly robust plant. Tissue derived from wood pulp is much too weak, the fibres are really short and the fibres are not generally distributed in sufficiently random directions. Also most wood pulp is not purified to remove the lignen. You can test how strong tissue paper is be testing it's tear resistance, the cheaper stuff has very little tear resistance, It's also not certain to contain no lignen unless this fact is stated.

JKX wrote: ↑Mon 08 Jan, 2024 9:45 pm How do you cook starch paste, where do you get it from - and the tissue for the hinges, and how do you make those hinges?

The starch and adhesive free mulberry tape I was going to get from Larson Juhl. However I must have been imagining it as I can't find the tape I was looking at previously.

The hinges aren't complicated. In this case they were strips cut as bridges covering the back drop out of a mount with 5mm adhered to the artwork being mounted, on the sides of the work and bottom. I used a toothpick, taped over it and pulled it out to create the gap for the bridge. As someone else suggested, it might be better to simply fold the tape into a 'z'. But I'm used to my way and find it quick.

In this particular case I'm looking for an alternative to the gummed lineco hayaku tape to hedgehog mount pictures. I've not been very satisfied with the tape I've used recently it because it's super temperamental with how much or little water is needed to activate and I suspect there's not much adhesive on the roll I have... or I just have a bad roll.

I've not made the starch adhesive myself yet, I've always used the gummed tapes in the instances I need. But I'm going to try it using the powder available from suppliers, applying it to the mulberry paper tape with a brush or cotton bud perhaps.

Pre-gummed tapes are better than self adhesive but they're not the best. Tapes with no adhesive are better still, as long as you're using good adhesive such as wheat starch paste, but the problem with any tape is the straight edge, which can make a sort of tide mark.

The best hinges are made from sheets of 100% kozo, which is the inner bark of the mulberry tree and you make them yourself by wet- tearing them to give feathered edges. There are many weights of paper as well as different colours, well, tones.
The paste can also be cooked - easily - to form anything from a gel to a pouring consistency, so it's all extremely versatile, e.g. for this 'hedgehog' method, on the bridges, if you use them (I don't as explained above) you don't need to insert anything to be removed when dry because you only apply the paste where you want it. Hinges can also be any width you require.

It's all a bit of an art but well worth learning; hardly anyone does it, most go for convenience and manufacturers' blurb. Set yourself apart.

There are some good youtube vids (and some bad ones) Maybe I'll start a thread in outgassing
Meanwhile have a look at PEL - put "starch paste" "kozo" "Japanese tissue" and "Japanese paper" in to their search.
There's some useful stuff in their blog too.


https://www.preservationequipment.com/

...

Thanks for the link! I'll certainly check them out.

I also like the idea of deckling/feathering the edges of the tapes.

It’s done by pleating the paper and using a bone folder on the creases. Wet the creases (deionised water) with a brush then tease apart.

Thanks, John!

It gives a lovely soft edge.

Book on
Framers Equipment Ltd
Conservation course in March

I teach these mounting methods and many more with tapes and rice papers and paste.

Nothing like a bit of hands on training, a lot of mistakes are made by using to much water.

Mitreman

Rice papers?