The Framers Forum

Morning all.

I've been pondering some items I have, and whether it is a good idea to frame them or not.

I have the history of our house through a large collection of deeds, receipts, OS plans, court documents and letters dating back to 1907 through 2008. The oldest are on vellum (or something similar), with wax seals and ribbons. Many are folded and seem fragile to open fully. I would love to have these on display but they are completely irreplaceable.

A customer yesterday brought in the deeds to their new house from 1870s and asked the same thing.

Similarly, I have some newspaper fragments from 1914 & 1950s discovered under the floorboards. They are disintegrating and have no intrinsic value but I'd like to have a go at preserving them.

I'm wondering what the consensus is for items like this? Even with level 1 framing, would that offer enough protection, or would they be better stored away? Maybe scanning and printing a reproduction instead?

Or just leave well alone?

I like the idea of warts and all but it has to be your decision or a customer's informed one.

The old newspaper fragments can be encapsulated but good copies on good paper can be beaten up a bit and you'd probably not know the difference, but the old vellum things will always look like a repro. The original, in a deep box frame, treated in the best way possible and, just as importantly if not more, hung in the most ideal conditions, would look great. A long time under a lot of weight will help with the folds and creases but beyond that, i.e. using moisture/heat/whatever, is best left to a conservator.

Thanks.

The customer yesterday was thinking of displaying theirs open and are going to come back for a chat. (It was closing time and I had to go).

My oldest deeds are folded up, But I would like to be able to take them out and look at the information on the inside occasionally.

This is my favourite, but the interesting information is on page 3 (while the road was being planned). It is a while before I will get round to doing anything, but I like to mull things over occasionally.


And this is one of the newspapers. We didn’t keep the mummified rat alongside it

Personally, I'd get them scanned and printed to frame and store the originals well somewhere safe. They'll be as interesting to someone in 100 years as they are to you today.

In your experience, how has that gone with customers?

Someone brings something in they have already decided they want to frame, but are then given the suggestion that was a bad idea, and that framing a copy instead and putting the actual thing back in the drawer it came out of is a better one. Then having to pay for that reproduction and maybe even having to go away and find a capable printing business, then maybe loyally coming back to you with the repro; how do you guarantee that unless your doing the reproduction in house?

Then, with an indenture on vellum, where the top is cut in curves and the bottom is folded up and has another piece woven through it with a heavy red wax seal. How could you reproduce that? Not through printing …. there’s 3D printing I suppose but ……????

I hear it a lot but don’t see many real life examples.

Its an interesting one.

My own hesitancy has always been in case the documents deteriorate, and also wanting them accessible. (Whilst also being a master of procrastination. )

The customer that came in was asking for an opinion on whether to frame their deeds or not and was quite open to the suggestion of a reproduction and a further conversation. But I can also see how a scan/print is not going to emulate the character of the original very well. I suppose for my own, I can have a copy made and see how it looks and make a decision based on that.

Only thing that would cause me to hesitate and suggest going the copy route, is the advice we were given when we bought our house.

It was built in 1913 but only registered with the Land Registry when we bought it in 2002. Which apparently isn’t that unusual in Devon - and likely other places too. All previous deeds, property sale documents etc etc (quite a bundle!) were handed over to us. Made for fascinating reading, from the build through to the owner before us. We have strict instructions that these Deeds are legal documents that must be handed over when we sell the property - so we have to keep them safely stored. Might be worth them double checking before framing.

If they go the copy route - find a good printer who can scan, tidy up and reprint. Make a good relationship with them and it should work ok for you. Recommendations work both ways of course. We’ve been doing that for years and never had a problem with people returning. Especially if you put through the order and take a before they get it done!

JKX wrote: Tue 06 Aug, 2024 9:27 pm In your experience, how has that gone with customers?
Someone brings something in they have already decided they want to frame, but are then given the suggestion that was a bad idea, and that framing a copy instead and putting the actual thing back in the drawer it came out of is a better one. Then having to pay for that reproduction and maybe even having to go away and find a capable printing business, then maybe loyally coming back to you with the repro; how do you guarantee that unless your doing the reproduction in house?
I hear it a lot but don’t see many real life examples.

I have a good relationship with a giclee printer, who will scan photoshop and print to a very high quality. He also frames, but not to my standard. We have an agreement that he sends my referalls straight back to me. There are no guarantees that they'll come back, but my work starts the minute that they walk in my door. If they don't come back to me then either I haven't done my job in building their trust or a multitude of other reasons not dependent on my excellent customer service! I've had people take months to come back with their prints, but the alternative would be to take that on myself, deliver the prints to him and wait and chat while he does his magic and there is no way to charge for that service with the time out of my day that it takes.
Once a customer has been informed of the risks of framing the original and how they can alleviate the issues with better glass and hanging position and lighting type, I'm happy to proceed as they want.

The case of the now three-dimensional vellum indenture though, with it's wavy top edge and a folded bottom, wax seal?

I think you are perfectly able to answer that question yourself John.

Whether anyone has tried to reproduce one of those?

Can’t see how I’d answer that!