The Framers Forum

Hello everyone,

I'm relatively new to the trade and am coming across a few quandaries as I progress.

A client has asked for a float mount but doesn't want a large fillet in the frame. I said it was a bad idea to have the watercolour sandwiched against the glass but they didn't want a frame that resembled a box frame. I can understand what they're wanting, preferring a shallow frame while illustrating the texture of the paper edges. So I want to ask you of all of your experience.

I thought I could either cut a black mount (black moulding chosen) that would be under the rebate to suspend the picture away from the glass, or cut some mdf strips and double side them to the rebate of the moulding which would be slightly thicker, and just paint them black.

Any ideas?

Thanks

Black 5mm foam board is easy to cut for a rebate spacer, or white 3mm foam board with black mount board bonded to it. Make it as deep as your frame will allow.

Rose and Hollis do a selection of paper covered fillets. There is a black one which is 6.5mm deep or 12.5mm if you want deeper.
It's in their 'Finished Moulding' section.

Another way to do it is to use a thick window mount and cut the window larger then the art. That way you can float the watercolour inside the mount window.
Makes for a much bigger frame though..

You could hedgehog float the piece to mountboard and add a mount on top with a window larger than the floated piece, the mount creating the separation between glass and work, no need for spacers.
Barewood spacers or paper wrapped spacers start at 5-6mm deep, so not really giving the feeling of a box frame, but you'll have to allow for that extra depth in the depth of the frame. MDF spacers are not something I have heard of or would recommend. Foamboard+mountboard is a good technique, but tricky if you're only doing very shallow spacers. I would suggest having a look in your supplier catalogues for a black/white/ivory paper wrapped spacer. They cut easily on the morso and can be joined with an underpinner if you have 3mm wedges, or if cut accurately and the piece isn't too big, can be placed in the rebate. If you use black spacers, colour the rebate before fitting/joining, so that any misalignment is hidden.
Double sided tape will always fail at some point, if you use it, use it with a glue to hold something in place while the glue dries. For wood PVA, for mountboard use EVA like Evacon-R glue.

Foam board/mount board spacers are only tricky if you cut them separately. Bond both together before cutting.

Yeah but come on, for a novice, cutting a 5mm spacer well isn't the easiest...

Well, seeing as they are, or can once you get going, be made from skinny offcuts you’d normally toss, practice will waste nothing.

You can also peel (or soak) off mountboard surface papers and bond that to foam board.

vintage frames wrote: ↑Wed 18 Sep, 2024 11:42 am
Another way to do it is to use a thick window mount and cut the window larger then the art. That way you can float the watercolour inside the mount window.
Makes for a much bigger frame though..

Why does it make for a much bigger frame?

Space around an image can, should even, be the same whether matted or floated.

If you float the art inside a frame, then it's just the size of the art, some margin around the edges and then the frame.

If you float the art inside a window mount, then its the art, some margins to the edge of the window and then the width of the mount itself inside the frame.
I think that makes for a bigger frame.

Thanks everyone. that's really helpful advice. I'll give the foam board a try and go from there.
Brilliant. thank you all.

Another way is to use a small moulding. The art is floated on a board (with appropriate margin. Then a small
moulding is put around it and tacked in (with backing board). Then the glass is placed on top of this - to cover
the small moulding frame up to the edge. Then the whole lot is put inside the outer frame. The glass spacing would
depend on the difference between the rebate lip and the face of the moulding. A simple cushion moulding works well.
The inner moulding can protrude past the outer moulding sight-edge so it should be complementary to the design. A raw
wood one which is painted ivory is the favourite but you can use an 'accent' colour.

* If the inner frame protrudes then Multipoints are the way to attach the two elements. Fire them into the side of the
inner frame and pop a screw through the hole in the point into the outer frame.

Could you not float with a mount? Shadow mount?

Not sure how to add photos otherwise i’d show you

Hopefully this will work

Yes, that was the sort of thing we were talking about.
But the discussion went a bit sideways for a while.

Godderz wrote: ↑Wed 18 Sep, 2024 10:48 am Hello everyone,

I'm relatively new to the trade and am encountering a few quandaries as I progress.

A client has asked for a float mount but doesn't want a large fillet in the frame. I said it was a bad idea to have the watercolour sandwiched against the glass but they didn't want a frame that resembled a box frame. I can understand what they're wanting, preferring a shallow frame while illustrating the texture of the paper edges. So I want to ask you about all of your experience.

I thought I could either cut a black mount (black moulding chosen) that would be under the rebate to suspend the picture away from the glass, or cut some MDF strips and double-side them to the rebate of the moulding which would be slightly thicker, and just paint them black.

Any ideas?

Thanks

For a sleek float mount without the bulk of a box frame, using black spacer strips along the frame's rebate would provide a subtle lift, keeping the artwork off the glass. Alternatively, a black mount beneath the artwork could create a clean float effect while maintaining the desired shallow profile. Both approaches offer a modern solution for https://www.framouspictureframing.com/w ... 38.49.jpeg, balancing aesthetics and protection for the watercolour.

Brilliant.

I've tried the black core mountboard strips under the frame rebate and that has worked a treat.
It's SO subtle that you don't register that it's there, creating a float frame that seems flush.

Great advice everyone. Thank you!

I get impression that people here aren't necessarily fans, but why not use Econospace (apart from the cost)?

I like it and use it a lot for situations such as the OP describes.

Interesting point. I've never used econospace. I like the seamlessness of spacers. I'm not sure I understand the idea of a clear spacer tbh.

I used to use econospace.

Those were the days of innocence.

The self adhesive on econospace then began to fail. The spacer fell into the frame space. The customer, a fine art dealer, was kind and understanding but made his opinion felt with a sneer -"nasty plasticity stuff".

Here are the options I would use for float mounting. The actual choice will depend on budget, the look we are trying to achieve, how much space is inside the frame etc.
Still use a mount or double mount but space it away from the picture to allow the edges to show.
Use plastic glass directly on the image.
Use econospace spacers.
Use paper covered fillets.
Use wooden spacers.
If required I'll use canvas offsets to give a little bit extra depth.

I regularly use econospace either black or clear depending on the colour of the outside frame.
It's only recommended up to 600mm I think although I've probably used it for a bit bigger.
I've never had any returned in over 10 years of using it and I think they have strengthened the glue used. I also use the Stonehenge method described on here so the top one can't fall.