The Framers Forum

I have been a bit fed up for the last few days as business is slow. Practically non-existant in fact. Today one of my regulars came in with three little cheapo jobs, for which I was duly grateful. He then tells me that the reason he hasn't been in lately was that I charged him £62 for a frame last time he came in and he wasn't going to pay that sort of money for a simple little job like that! He is on of those people who always refuse to wait for a quote as 'they know I won't diddle them'. He said the only reason he came back to me was that the competitor who he has been going to lately was not around on two occasions he had called.
We looked up his last job out of interest and it was £52 not £62 as stated. The moulding was in the second dearest category and he had a double mount, glazed. Overall 24" X 18" in size. I didn't think it was excessive, but he does usually go for cheaper mouldings and single mounts. I made sure he got a quote for his latest jobs, and will do in future.

deejay wrote:...£52 ... The moulding was in the second dearest category and he had a double mount, glazed. Overall 24" X 18" in size. I didn't think it was excessive...

Neither do I.

Sounds like the customer has a major dose of bad attitude. He sounds very rude in his overall manner. I'm always happy when people like that take their business elsewhere...

The cheeky git. i have had a few awkward customers but never one who came out with all that. But I never get annoyed..... I just crank up the the bill a few notches.

Problem is that over a year he spends about £300 even though they are cheapo jobs. I still like regulars, even if they are a pain. He's never complained before. So I'm going to do a Boots special ( cheapest one free) so he can't complain again.

You're a more noble person than me, John!

You're pricing appears very reasonable Deejay. Watch out for these 'wolves in sheeps clothing', who are under the misplaced impression that there can't be that much difference price-wise between one moulding and another; then complain, just because they're too bloody impatient and the rollers parked on double - yellows !

Fancy admitting that he only came back to you under duress. Arse

Don't go soft on this one. You might see him as a steady income stream, but remember it's only 300 nicker after all and no sop freebies.

I never let anyone out without knowing the costings - vital, or it bites you on the bum.

Foxy

Just picked up on the comment about business being slow or 'non existent'. I have been in business for just over 6 months and business was picking up, but of late hardly any. Is that the experience of others? All my customers to date have been very complimentary about my work and they have been giving out my cards to friends etc. but where are they all? Trying to remain optimistic and getting on with those 'to do' jobs while its quiet.

I always find May to be very slow.

You never make money by being the cheapest framer around. At that size even in my very cheapest moulding the customer would have been looking at £70+. You tend to keep good customers because your the best - not the cheapest.

Its easy to make the mistake of thinking that we are framers - and not salesmen, but selling what we do is probably the most important part of the job. I am sure we all get the regular customer who just leaves work to be done - had one in last week who left 40 photographs to be framed and didn't want to wait for me to price them all up - he got an email later that day with detailed pricing so that he knew exactly what he had committed to - nothing worse than the customer who complains that your overcharging when they see the bill for the first time - your not selling at that point but firefighting. I have been known to get very bad tempered when customers take the p - usually because I know that I have failed to do my job properly in the first place

It's a different matter if you are just buying, marking up and selling. It does not take long to pick up the phone and order a fresh lot of stock. But as a framer what you are mostly selling is time. You can't order extra.

I once read a shrewd observation in a framing book: If you halve your prices and double your trade you are working twice as hard for the same money. If you double your prices and halve your trade..... well you can work out the rest. In the end you have to strike a balance, preferably in your favour.

Hear hear!

Well said Prospero !

How ever I just did the same thing . . . . should have showed Mrs Cheapo (wants hand finished conservation on Ikea money) with her watercolours the door, but relented and agreed to do a "budget" job for her, gggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. silly me . . . . somebody slap me.

May has usually been our quietest month every year for 20 years. We put it down to our customers having to pay the balance on their holidays in 8 weeks time taking loads of cash out of the retail market. We usually have at least 1 hot and sunny week in May which drives all the spenders out of the town centres to their gardens or to the hills and beaches. We used to worry about it, but now we are used to it, it is still a bit of a pain though. This year hasn't been too bad - we have had a couple of big orders in from students for their degree shows and more than usual customer framing. Sales off the wall appear to have held up too, so hopefully the month will end up OK. We also have our end of year stock take and clear out at the end of the month so overall, we have a lot on and I don't really know how I have found time to type this up!

I think some customers seem to have a pre-conceived price in their heads when they take a picture for framing. Probably from one they had done 20 years ago at a while-you-wait joint. If they have say, £40 in their head and you quote them £85, they do tend to baulk. Sometimes if they have a fixed budget, over which they will not go. I say OK, I'll do you a frame for that price, but I will have to pick the frame etc, and I will have to do it in my timescale. I can then often use up a few offcuts or old stock and work it in with other jobs at my convenience. But mostly these are the customers who want something just so, and it that case there is no way you can do it on the cheep. Another thing to watch out for. It's often tempting to discount a job for a new customer just to get them onside. This can backfire badly when they return the next week with an armful and expect the same price. (or less?)
It's all about keeping the upper hand.

Moglet wrote:You're a more noble person than me, John!

I find that a complaint often results in more profit if you keep your cool and deal with it intelligently, even if it is not actually warranted. He will appreciate the concilliation and desert my competitor. Thus I will get the trade that would otherwise have gone elsewhere. Also he is likely to tell other people that his complaint was dealt wit reasonably and hopefully they will come here as well.

markw wrote:You never make money by being the cheapest framer around. At that size even in my very cheapest moulding the customer would have been looking at £70+. You tend to keep good customers because your the best - not the cheapest.

Its easy to make the mistake of thinking that we are framers - and not salesmen, but selling what we do is probably the most important part of the job. I am sure we all get the regular customer who just leaves work to be done - had one in last week who left 40 photographs to be framed and didn't want to wait for me to price them all up - he got an email later that day with detailed pricing so that he knew exactly what he had committed to - nothing worse than the customer who complains that your overcharging when they see the bill for the first time - your not selling at that point but firefighting. I have been known to get very bad tempered when customers take the p - usually because I know that I have failed to do my job properly in the first place

I don't aim to be the cheapest framer around. My prices reflect a good profit at my overheads, which are low as I work from an annexe to my home.

Prospero's quite right.

Always be in control. Customers are a wily bunch, especially lately, if they are under an impression you are gaggin' for the work and show any sign of desperation. Even if you are not busy, never let on, it's a negative. So when asked 'are you busy', and they do, a positive 'yes' puts you in control.

That's for starters.

Any favours with discounts really have to be earned, not given away easily, spoiling your profit margin.

- and control in choice off the matt stand and framing board has you fully in charge too; all this without being bossy or scary.

A fine balance - but an art in our trade to be learned. Not easy, but vital.

One of my pre-framing activities was selling double glazing on the door step; same scenario, always be in control of the sale.

Foxy

foxyframer wrote:
One of my pre-framing activities was selling double glazing on the door step

We tend to keep ours to the windows