The Framers Forum

Advice please.
I really like the result of this trio of small squares painting, they are deep canvases @ 5inch squares. There's a strong story behind why it is painted so, and I can talk to people if interested about that.

However, the presentation isn't quite sharp. The not very big problem is the millimeter or so gap between the white backing canvas board, and the pale wood L-shaped drop-in frame.
It works great up to a point, but the gap which is not unusual in a drop frame, simply put, would look tidier if it was invisible. How to disguise it though?

I've tried cutting a piece of wood and painting it white, but it looks far better like this, which is a gesso'd linen canvas board.
I've tried using a thin bit of fillet trim. But it spoils the simplicity.
Common filler might crack, it's fine for a mitre join fill, but on this is it too much to fill.

An L-fillet might be too bulky on the eye, I keep thinking it looks more like a laminated drawer, than a pretty frame when I cut a fillet trim.

Do you have any product suggestions, please?

My options at the moment are either to go with the filler, or to leave it as it is. It will probably go into an exhibit for £120, so whilst I think that is a lot of money, it isn't a big ticket item.
But I confess I rather like it. It's cute.

You've used a tray frame but dropped in an item that probably should have a normal frame.

It's probably the fact the gap around isn't even that is causing more issues visually.

A few thoughts. Will the canvas board not get quite grubby?

How deep is it? I'd be inclined to cut it 5mm or 10mm short all the way round and see what that looks like so it has the presentation of a canvas in a tray frame.

If everything is already cut I'd maybe add filler or even caulk around the edges.

Looks like there's a bit of a chunk out of the moulding top left which would bother me more than the small gap around.

My problem with this post is that you believe £120 for a miniature canvas triptych "is a lot of money"!! Even at 30% commission you're only getting £84, then subtract materials...
That's before any framing costs.

If I were to design this project with a similar design I would have cut a rabbit(rebate) into the back of the wood moulding, versus 6 mm from the top of the moulding as with most standard picture frame moulding, to have the wrapped fabric set inside the rabbit. This would totally eliminate the imperfect edges of the wrapped fabric.

Use a normal moulding with suitable dimensions, mitred on its side to create a rebate for your mounting/backing boards.

Firing V nails at point A can be tricky but not impossible, plus there’s the old fashioned brads and filler and other methods too.

There are mouldings designed for this with wider point ‘A’s.

One cheap way to rescue it would be to take a lenght of R&H F1 fillet, paint it with the bright yellow as on the centre panel, and then mitre it to fit inside the frame.
A bit like a gilded slip.

Hello, Pramsay.
It does look like there is a chink in the frame in the image, but it is actually true. I had to have a look to make sure, and it's fine.
The canvas won't get grubby, any more than a painting might, the paint I've used is resistant to dust, thank goodness.

I'm going to use this frame as a tester, and will cut a fresh one in the next weeks.
So, first up to try: as you suggest, Dermot, I've put in an F1 fillet (not R&H, but I have a square line of pine).

I'm pleased I'm not leaving this picture as it is, because I've just stewarded at a group exhibit, and a painter there has dropped a canvas board into a museum style frame cut out, but you can see the gaps all the way round. Spoiling the artwork.

Sadly, I cannot cut a rabbit, I don't have a router, and cannot think how to create one without. My dremel would not be tidy enough.
I might be able to use a stanley knife on a soft wood? We shall see ... thank you everyone, I'll get there.

You don't have to cut a rebate. Have another look at the photo JKX posted. It's a standard wide flat moulding but it's cut on its side so that you can join it rebate side down allowing you to slip your board in from the back, hiding any gaps.

The width of the moulding becomes the depth.

Good morning all.
Unfortunately, the F1 visible insert doesn't improve on what I've got, and I am now going to chop as you show in your image JKX.
I have a Lion both white moulding and a natural wood moulding, with the correct profile to match your kindly drawn picture.

https://www.lionpic.co.uk/p/41714/30x20 ... e-Moulding

I'm pretty sure this will fix the look and I will report back.


Justine, you were talking about the price of £120 for so much work.
I know. My prices are affordable. I find it easier to sell 2 paintings for £150, than 1 painting for £300. I tick along at art fairs, exhibitions, and the £120 or the £150 or the £200 is all mine. No commissions or submission payments.

I'm not a business with overheads, and it's how I trade my art. And it takes me longer to make the frame than paint the picture usually, which I enjoy just as much as painting. I like to paint, look at my picture for a few weeks on my walls, then go to fairs and sell something.
(I'm not very ambitious but also, I do not cling to my art either).

When using flat mouldings for depth I usually joined them from what would be the top in your case, then used a capping frame in the rebate.

You need either a fairly thick rebate “lip” or to somehow pin it in the rebate itself, maybe you could stack 10mm + V nails there and pull the last one out with pliers.

You could pin from the top and fill over or cap it with a flat matching fillet/spacer moulding.

Where there’s a will!

Rose and Hollis do a few suitable profiles with much wider “lips” but I think only in obeche.

Centrado do a frame that has the look of a tray frame but is actually a normal frame.

Where there's a will indeed.

And I've got there. I'm so pleased I abandoned the first drop frame, I knew it wasn't good enough, despite "the look".
Your expertise here has really helped me know what was probably perfectly obvious to you.

I flipped the frame, to be able to use the rebate to solve my initial problem.
I used the natural wood I had, but it was a bit orange and block-y, thus overshadowing the 3 canvases.
The underpinning worked exactly in the thin rebate, as I have a manual set up, with the v-wedge uppermost, so I was able to manipulate the pin just right.

A thin layer of white wax has calmed down the yellow wood. And if I may be braggadocious, I'm dead chuffed with it now. Far better than the first go.
So thank you all, once again for prompting me to redo the frame. It is now the look I was trying to get.

I'll up the price to £125 I think.

Pramsay, that style of frame looks fab with a big border, like I'm trying to achieve here, I think it's called museum style framing?
A friend of mine uses it on his big pieces, and it's better than a scoop style.

It enhances his big pieces beautifully, so I know it will work well the next time I want to frame like this. I have a few deep canvases to paint, and I'll definitely use this framing way for them from now on.
I'm tired of drop frames, and prefer a stronger look to the casements.

Brilliant, I'm happy I came here and asked.

PS, I do give myself yet another manual problem when I use these clamps, as I have to fill and disguise the holes.
But it's the best way I can find of getting a tight seal for deep frames.

Perfick!

If you’re ok with filling those holes you could use small countersunk screws instead of V nails and fill those holes.
Other ideas, strap clamps, mitre vices, pocket hole jig.

In the olden days frames were joined with pins or nails and those indents that the clamps make would have been filled pin/nail holes, think of them as a nod to traditional techniques. I'm sure Dermot would agree, far too much importance is placed on perfection these days and not enough on craftmanship.

Thanx, Justin.
I've recently got to love repurposing older gold frames (just a bit of touching up losses, and gilding with waxes), and get some lovely results.

I've not heard of a mitre vice, or a pocket hole jig. I'm always up for buying new kit!
I have actually got a blind nailer, that works with straight wood cuts, but is hit or miss with mitres, as you really need 3 hands to hold the woods together, hold the hammer, and hold the pen. Plenty of potential for movement and making a mess.

The chap who taught me framing next door to my studio use to love wooden dowel joins but didn't really have the time to do it.

If you are using those frame clamps, then you may as well use a simple strap clamp and then cross nali the mitres when the glue has dried.
That way the mitres will actually be much tighter.

Mitre the sides
Glue the mitres and place in the strap clamp.
Tighten up and leave to dry overnight.
Using a thin framing pin as a drill bit, pre-drill two fixing points on each corner.
Tap in the same size pins as cross nails.
Countersink and fill if you wish - or just leave showing. Painting over will hide them anyway.

Next time, maybe use a thinner prifile. I prefer the profile you used in the original photo.
The thicker profile reminds me too much of local village craft and makers fayres.