The Framers Forum

I have muddled my way through a number of shirts and found myself in a very annoying position. A footballer (who is proving to be a nightmare- haggling on price despite having a car worth over half a million in the drive) has asked me to frame 10 shirts which is manageable. What is more challenging is that I have to get them 50 miles to him in the back of my car. They will be pushing 800x1000 and I am probably just going to get the glass cut for me by Wessex but should I go 2mm or 3mm? Also what would be the best way to stack them in the car?

This is all under duress but needs must. It will pay for another camera lens!

10 x frames that size, all with glass glazing is going to weigh a hell of a lot, especially in your car.

I would use 2mm or 3mm styrene and bought cut to size.
They are just football shirts ..

I have always avoided styrene because I was worried it was a pain to use. Which is the stuff that is worth using? Just straight 2mm styrene?

First of all I'd find a friend with a small van to save yourself the headache of possibly two trips.
Secondly whether you use acrylic or glass I'd use 3mm because assuming you're using spacers, the glazing will only be supported on the edges and will be prone to bowing.
If a haggling customer doesn't understand my reasoning and polite "no", I send them to bargain hunt with another framer.

Styrene is used for cheap work. Acrylic is used for quality picture framing. Google will explain the difference better than I can

vintage frames wrote: Tue 04 Aug, 2026 3:06 pm They are just football shirts ..

They are very rarely "just" football shirts. Not your cup of tea perhaps Dermot, but often valuable and collectible and certainly deserving of decent framing.

To the OP, find yourself an art courier and get your customer to pay for the transport from your place to his. I'd make that a condition of accepting the order.

You'll have to forgive me Jo but I'm unable to relate to a world which puts a value on the collectability of football shirts.

I have no problem however with anyone who can make a profit from framing them.

Its a bit telling that the customer is haggling on price.
Which does he not value - the shirts or the skills of the picture framer?

It’s invariably the signatures on the shirt that create the value.

In this case I’d say not respecting the skills and work involved may well be driving price. It often is with shirts.

To be fair most of the shirts are his own or some of the best players in the game, I think he is well within his rights to collect them and be proud of it. I doubt 50,000 people have ever come to watch us cut a double bevel. Also framing a signed Messi shirt is a lot more rewarding than another awful watercolour that might be a dog or an elephant that you have to lie through your teeth about how you like the eyes...

I agree with Tudor Rose. They will understand the cost of a courier service vs what your hourly charge is as well as the cost of using your won vehicle for for the receiving and then returning of the items.

From a basic "facts of life" business decision you should charge for what you do for a living as a value added enhancement to what you do. Just like a local electrician, plumber or other trade person that a livable wage.

Just to answer a question that I have no idea that the going rates are in whatever region of the UK are, What does a plumber or an electrician charge for a house call "trip charge" and then their hourly rate per person?

Regarding discounts/haggling, I saw a great reel today by a tradesman saying there are two types of customer who ask for a discount neither of which he'll work for. People who can't afford the work in the first place and people who don't value the work that you do (and have a Maserati in the drive). One can't afford it and one doesn't respect you. I believe there's a third type, who I've been unfortunate enough to meet a couple of times (always the husbands) who like to see if you're desperate for their business. They're just ****s and don't get invited back.

Here's how not to do it..... (Facebook link so you might need to be logged in to see it?)

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1266680418792398

Absolutely agree.

Is that really how much work is involved?

It’s a proper budget level service. They are doing the absolute minimum to get the shirt looking presentable from the front. I guess by showing their processes in reels like this they are being transparent about the level of care they are showing to valued (and in some instances valuable) items. Pay peanuts, get monkeys.