Banks

[kev@frames]

no sign of a recession here .... yet - fingers crossed.

but funnily enough i read in a paper yesterday that Barclays had not asked for government money to bail them out, and so would escape "nationalisation".

I thought "aha, that's the bank for me then" - having utterly had enough of gordon brown etc interfering in my life and business enough already without forking more out to a government owned bank.

By complete coincidence I was approached tody by ..... Barclays. Would I be interested in chatting about their available services.

Banks headhunting customers? haven't seen that for the last ten years, whats the world coming to!

Made me think, dare we begin to think that small businesses are becoming important to banks again?

[NorthernTracey]

Anyone know what the actual laws and regs are on banking? Do I HAVE to have a 'business account'?
I just closed my limited company and now am continuing 'unlimited' but not sure what avenue to take. Want to avoid as much paperwork as possible. Am just using a normal account kept separate for the business at the moment. Is this illegal?

[WelshFramer]

Don't think there's any problem if you're self-employed. I know plenty of self-employed people who just have a normal account. Business accounts are generally just a way of getting you to pay for what is otherwise free.

However, you might want to consider joining the Federation of Small Businesses and opening a Co-Op business account. That way all normal banking services are free, you can use a local Post Office as a bank branch and they'll pay you £25 a year.

[prospero]

When I first started as self-employed I just went to the bank and opened an extra current account. The bank were fully aware that it was for my business. About 15 years later they twigged on and suggested I switch to a 'business' account. The only difference as far as I can tell is that you get a thicker cheque book.

Talking of banks, has anyone been following the 'reclaiming illegal bank charges' saga. As far as I know all claims are on hold, pending a test case though the courts. If the decision goes in favour of the customer, the banks will have to fork out billions. (Oh Dear. What a pity. Never mind.) Problem is, the banks have huge financial resources and can keep delaying the inevitable for years though appeals and other legal manouvers.
I can't say I have any sympathy whatsoever. In the past few years they have been ripping me off regulary. I'll be the first to admit that my cash flow can be somewhat errrr....eratic.

One example. Bounced a direct debit for 1.50 (one pound and fifty pence) as there was only 1.28 in the account. Charged me £25.00. Deducted imediately mind you. No warning. This snowballed though 7 other small direct debits. Result - £200.00 charges. The money to cover the DDs was paid in the next day, but this was swallowed by the charges, so I had to find some more. But WTH. I have only held an account your 33 years. The current biz manager is younger than that.
I haven't added up all these dodgy charges from the past 6 years, but at a rough guess they owe me at least £10K.

[NorthernTracey]

Thanx all for your invaluable input. It's a weight off my mind.
Welshframer I already did have a co-op business account but it wasn't free. They charged for cheques and all sorts, one of the reasons I quit it. Is this a newbie offer they have on?
Re those charges (you poor thing) I'm sure theres a way to get them back as I am currently dissolving all my credit cards and got one of those debt people to take care of it and they seem be able to get charges dropped very easily. There must be some legal jargon to get em to roll over.
Here's a helpful DIY website:
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/bankcharges

Now I wonder if this also applies to parking ticket charges, as in paying a bit late???

[Jonny2morsos]

We were pointed in the direction of Alliance and Leicester Commercial Bank soon after we started up by Business Direct or some such organisation where my wife attended a few business start up meetings.

Have to say we are very pleased, never pay any charges and in fact we get a little bit of interest (we do always stay in credit). Can pay cash in over the Post Office counter and they take cheque deposit envelopes FOC. there is online banking, telephone banking, debit card.

They also offer a credit card if required and got a letter this week offering a guarenteed overdraft/business loan (no thanks!)

On a slightly different note - do you remember the government thought it would be a good idea to bail out the banks with our (taxpayers) cash. Well now they don't want to lend any of it to anybody! Anything strike you as being slightly wrong there?

How about we all start asking for it back or getting them to bail out Woolworths so that we can all still enjoy a visit to the "Pick and Mix".

John.

[framejunkie]

How about we all start asking for it back or getting them to bail out Woolworths so that we can all still enjoy a visit to the "Pick and Mix".

John.

I think that 'Nick and Mix' has finally sunk Woolies. It's been a long-standing philanthropic gesture to offer free sweets to the people of Britain, but all good things come to an end.

[WelshFramer]

Thanx all for your invaluable input. It's a weight off my mind.
Welshframer I already did have a co-op business account but it wasn't free. They charged for cheques and all sorts, one of the reasons I quit it. Is this a newbie offer they have on?

I don't think so but you do have to be a member of FSB,

[prospero]

I don't know if my bank manager visits this forum or not , but today I received a suspiciously grovelly letter from him. " I'm only happy if you are happy...blah...blah, etc". Or could it be that 'them upstairs' have had a rocket from the goverment telling them to leave off trying to bleed the little guys dry?

Anyone else noticed a distinct change in attitude from their bank?

(I won't mention the name of my bank. But it begins with H and ends with C. )

[NorthernTracey]

'Nick n Mix'

Mmmm Welshframer, what is FSB??

[iantheframer]

FSB Federation of Small Businesses Well worth joining

http://www.fsb.org.uk/default.aspx?loc=general&id=0

[gesso]

Talking of banks, has anyone been following the 'reclaiming illegal bank charges' saga.

little known fact that business accounts are not covered by the hold on claims as the cca (consumer credit act) is not used when reclaiming this is inportant!

Get your claim started with help from these people

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/

http://www.penaltycharges.co.uk/main_bank_charges.php

[gesso]

As far as Barclays are concerned I use to bank with them . After a happy PROFITABLE relationship of
11 years 94~05
I had m account put on hold, my loan (5k) called in and my overdraft facsility cancelled all this happend with only a message left on my mobile ... no letter nothing.

This inturn caused me to terminate a customers next order. He was Bob Diamond (CEO Of Barclays)
I enjoyed the pain from shooting myself in the foot.

Good luck with your new account! Lets not forget what has and is happening if you want to know what banks are like get online get educated before you get shafted.

[prospero]

little known fact that business accounts are not covered by the hold on claims as the cca (consumer credit act) is not used when reclaiming this is inportant!

Get your claim started with help from these people

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/

http://www.penaltycharges.co.uk/main_bank_charges.php

That's veeeeerrrrry interesting gesso. I missed that bit of info .

....Where's them bank statements????/

[kev@frames]

interesting information as well as a cautionary tale there Gesso. Certainly very good words of advice indeed: do research before you choose a new bank.

I remember Barclays taking similar action in this region some years ago with agricultural (farmers) accounts en-mass.

believe it or not our overdraft facility, for what its worth is LESS than one weeks average takings. pointless really.

Do i feel sorry that I just read that people in the banking industry are being made redundant? no not very.

I think the problem with banking for any small business is that the bank "managers" (there seem to be more "managers" than cashiers i think) dont have the faintest idea about anybody's individual business, or in many cases the local/regional businesses

[prospero]

The so-called 'managers' in banks (the ones you are allowed to see anyway) have very little power. They are basically gatekeepers for the faceless big boys upstairs. In my bank they are routinely moved to other branches every 18months. I have been told (not by the bank) that this is company policy to prevent customers getting (God forbid) 'too friendly'.

I always tell them they are on a fixed income while my salary is unlimited and I can never get made redundant. Don't seem to cut much ice though.

Here's a funny story. Well it's not all that funny, but here goes......

A few months ago it was mortgage paying day. Account had about 15 quid in it. But I knew I was due a big wad of cash for a painting that would more than cover it. Manager rings in the morning. I told him I would be getting a big cash payment within the next few days if not today. Best he could do was say was - pay the cash in by 2pm or he would bounce the payment. As luck would have it, the lady picked up the painting at 1pm, paid me and left about 1:30. The bank is 8 miles away. Lept in car. 15 mins to drive there, park and walk to bank. It's not a big branch but there are about 4 people waiting in line..... 1:52 only one old boy ahead. He's umming and arring about some daft thing, meanwhile I have my eye on the clock....... get to the counter with about 3mins to spare. Soon as I am out the door I'm on the blower to the manager (he's at the main branch). He grudgingly agrees to let the payment go though. It makes you think if they are on commission for every penalty charge they can hand out. Still, maybe he is wise not to trust me. After all I have only had an account there for 33 years.

One thing I would like to know. In these days of global communication and general hi-techy stuff, why does it still take banks 3 days to clear cheques? Even direct transfers seem to take an inordinate time. Either the money is there or it's not.
What's the 'kin holdup?

OK. Rant over. My spleen is duly vented. Thanx for listening.

[Bill Henry]

… why does it still take banks 3 days to clear cheques? … Either the money is there or it's not.
What's the 'kin holdup?

Technically, the money is there, … but not there. This is the twisted reason how banks earn their real money: They take the money that you (and thousands of others) deposit and lend it to other banks and collect “overnight” interest on it. Percentage wise it’s not very much, but if you’re talking about millions of Pounds, it adds up quickly so it ain’t chump change anymore.

The “loan” is only a paper transaction with your deposit as collateral (although it isn’t in your account yet). The next day, after they have collected the interest from their loan, you get to see the money in your account.

Sound fair?

[gesso]

They take the money that you (and thousands of others) deposit and lend it to other banks


Next thing you'll be saying is our a real dog!

[silvercleave]

Has anyone noticed that when you take a card payment and after a period it becomes credited on your current account, certain banks even then class it as uncleared effects for two days, One offender is a large bank that I suppose I mustn't name but has 4 initials in it's title

Ian

[prospero]

Last time I had a personal visit from the commercial manager (the bank That Must Not Be Named), he suggested that I get an electronic card terminal. Little did he know that half an hour before he came I had signed up for one from a local company who offered a much better deal than the bank. Once upon a time I would have stuck with the bank, but WTH, If they can be hard-nosed, so can I. He still hasn't twigged that I have cancelled the insurance policy (from the same bank) that covers my mortgage and got a lot cheaper one. A helluva lot cheaper.

Speaking of insurance and going off at a slight tangent....

My renewal quote for my car insurance was £478. (not from the bank. ) I thought this was getting a bit steep, so just for the hell of it I tried one of those 'compare' websites. Got a quote the same cover for £177. That's a BIG difference. And even better, when I paid it in one lump online it came down to £161. Add this to the other insurances I have recently switched and that's about a grand off my overheads next year.