The Framers Forum

Here's one I did earlier....



Looks OK I think. It's a limited edition giclee on canvas.

Here's what it looks like at the back....



And hanging....




That I am not so keen on. The canvas protrudes a good inch. I fixed it in place with bendy plates and secured with a small screw. This works fine with with a wider frame but this fame is less than 3" and the side veiw looks untidy. I can see it being a problem with some buyers.

I pointed this out to the artist whos work it is and we agreed that the simplest way is to restretch on std bars. BUT. the sizes are metric. Cost of restreching is one thing. I don't know ehere I can buy 400mm and 500mm bars 'off the shelf'. Custom made I can see the job costing the artist £60+. I can add a thin piece of timber to make the sides of the frame deeper. This is tricky and would add a similar amount to the frame.

Why do printers do this?

That's a rhetorical question..... Because they have the machinery to do gallery wraps and it's easier. No thought for the poor framer. Or the poor artist for that matter. They get the bill. But I wonder how many such canvases are suitable for hanging without a frame? Abstracts look good this way. Figurative stuff generally demands a frame.

OK. That was a bit of a rant.

I do a lot of hf frames and I can build up custom profiles and finish them. Most framers don't - each to his own. I would be interested in any thoughs/comments of how you would approach the framing of the hound image if presented with it by a (trade) customer.

It could be dry/wet mounted to board or you could buy stretcher moulding, problem with that though is that the canvas cannot be re-tensioned if it were to relax in time, it would have to be re-stretched.

However, there are stretcher mouldings available that are re-tensionable; Simons do one that can be for gallery wraps or normal strtetching, depending on which way you mitre it, whichever way you mitre it you are left with a 4mm (or so) channel on the inside of the frame, you don't underpin it; it is joined with a (supplied - lots in a bag) triangle of plywood which fits tightly - has to be knocked in - you just don't knock it in all the way home.

You can staple the back of the moulding if you want - staples will give if re-tensioning is required.

I'm sure other suppliers do similar mouldings but Simons is a good one as it is good for 'normal' jobs as well as galllery wraps.

'ere we go - found some info from Wessex - exactly what I was on about (Simons will be cheaper)!

That's not a bad idea at all John. I has forgotten about that.
I tried a bit of similar section once and wasn't too impressed, but at the time I could only get some MDF stuff which was very bendy. The pine would be better. The actual system is quite a good idea.

btw. The second picture. I didn't put the masking tape on the back. It was already on

My opinion is that the easiest and least costly method is to make a box, to go on the back of the slip, that is tall enough to enclose the stretcher, plus a little more to allow a coreflute or even a 4 ply mat to be placed over the back of the painting. Then the whole package can be held in with tabs or whatever you normally use.
I buy 75mm x 12mm pine and cut it down to whatever width I need using a circular saw (table saw). I also have a cheap, $150, thicknesser which dresses the sawn side. This is not absolutely necessary though.
If I didn't have this equipment, it would be possible to get a joinery shop to make several sizes in advance.

If the finish you have shown in the images worries you, it only takes a few minutes to cut the timber, stain the outside, make a box and fit it. Perhaps most customers might not even be concerned with it as it is. After all, the edge of the canvas is only visible from the side, if the piece is placed in certain locations like a long hallway or on a staircase.

Nigel Nobody wrote:My opinion is that the easiest and least costly method is to make a box, to go on the back of the slip, that is tall enough to enclose the stretcher, plus a little more ...

I think that's fine, (as long as the box matches or compliments the frame) for something three-dimensional or even for something like this that is glazed and spaced well back from the glazing. IOW so that the reason for all that depth is apparent - otherwise it just looks wrong, well - strange ...... well - to me anyway ..... with the artwork (effectively) at the front of a box.

There are some huge box profile mouldings which will do the job, but they only ever look right on larger canvases. For some customers, I try to get around the problem by stacking two mouldings together. One fliped joined over on it's side and the other sitting inside the rebate of the first one. It usually takes ages finding a combination which the customer will accept and even then, there's no guarrantee that they will like the price.

Even if they go for it, it's a PITA doing the job and securing the canvas into the frame. I don't much like doing it this way, but I aim to use a cap moulding which allows space for fixing screw eyes into the side of the canvas and then screws through the eyes into the rear face of the cap moulding. There must be a better way, but usually the customer is already moaning about the price, so I give them the choice and they go for the cheapest.

The worst ones are the cheapskate artists who buy deep canvases because they are on a cheap special offer and then expect a cheap frame job to go with it. However you do it, you can't win!

Not your average framer wrote:.....fixing screw eyes into the side of the canvas and then screws through the eyes into the rear face of the cap moulding. There must be a better way ......

Indeed there is - fire rigid framers points in to the side of the canvas and staples over the points.

Indeed there is - fire rigid framers points in to the side of the canvas and staples over the points.

How I do it also...never had a problem with it...

Or use these: http://www.tabmaster.co.uk/show_product.php?pid=193 with some screws.

These days they are the only points I use. Although they're described as flexible they seem to work fine as rigid points and are thinner and sharper than any others I've used - which means they can be used very close to the edge of the moulding,

Vivian Kistler had an article on stretching digital canvas prints in a recent issue of PFM. Basically, her advise was 'don't bother'. Digital canvases will generally not stretch successfully and will sag after quite a short time - particularly if covered with a laminate.

Generally I advise my customers to have my digital canvases bonded to fomecore. So far I've not handled any limited edition canvas prints but if I did then I'd probably consider options other than stretching unless the customer insisted.

I just recently refused to stretch a giclèe. In the past we’ve had too many whose surfaces have cracked and chipped along the edge of the stretcher/strainer bars when the canvas is brought around. I have learned that I cannot tell in advance which ones will do that and which ones will not. It probably has something to do with the surface coating, but I cannot tell at a glance what it is that makes the canvas do that.

Like Mike, we often suggest that giclèes be dry mounted, too, but that is sometimes risky. Most of the inks, if allowed to dry properly, are fairly stable, but once in a while, they may bleed under heat.

I cringe at the thought of driving points or screw eyes into the side of any stretched canvas, so in Peter’s scenario, I would try to fabricate offset clips that had enough depth to secure the piece. With my skills, it would look pretty sloppy, but, at least, the canvas would remain intact.

As a point of interest, over here we would call the stretching method of the canvas in the first picture a “museum wrap” i.e. when the blank canvas is wrapped around the sides and secured to the back (no staples showing on the sides).

Over here, a “gallery wrap” is generally in reference to when the image on the canvas is brought around and visible on the sides of the stretcher/strainer bars. Like the “museum wrap”, the staples are secured to the back and are not visible on the sides of the bars.

Personally, I think it is a stupid way to display art, but it is becoming fairly popular way to display ‘contemporary’ and abstract art with younger people. I hate to see the edges of the art ‘oozing’ around the stretcher bars.

Both the “museum” and “gallery” wraps are, in my opinion, a way of eliminating having to go through the expense of actually framing the piece. Cheap bas*ards!

When i was working with a friend years ago we found the only way to avoid the cracking on the edges was to spray 2 coats of an acrylic varnish before the canvas was stretched. The priming on those giclee canvasses tend to be very brittle, hence the cracking. The varnish is much more tough and stretches around the corner better. It wasn't exactly failsafe, but at least that way we made a living instead of printing everything 4 times.

Roboframer wrote: I think that's fine, (as long as the box matches or compliments the frame) for something three-dimensional or even for something like this that is glazed and spaced well back from the glazing. IOW so that the reason for all that depth is apparent - otherwise it just looks wrong, well - strange ...... well - to me anyway ..... with the artwork (effectively) at the front of a box.

I stain the outside of the box bit to as near the colour of the edge of the frame as possible. In the case illustrated the box is set way back from the edge of the frame and is only ever seen from really close angles from the wall it hangs on. It's certainly better than seeing the edge of the canvas and the fasteners that hold the stretcher into the frame.

For boxes that are not set back, I quite often use a piece of the same moulding and cut it to a convenient shape to act as a box. That way the box exactly matches the frame. Once again this choice is governed by the customers wallet and how far they are prepared to open it!

Hi Mike,

While I have a Fletcher multi-point gun, but I would normally only use it on a canvas as a last resort.

I find that unless you don't allow much clearance for getting the canvas into the frame, the screw holes can be very close to the rebate, which can lead to splitting the wood as the screw is tightened.

Also there's a lot less give in a screw eye, which is often a good thing if the canvas wrap is not completely flat.

I don't like the idea of penetrating the side of the canvas with points, screw eyes, or anything else. As I said in my earlier posting " I don't much like doing it this way", but with deep canvas wraps, you don't get too many other options!

Why not? You have to stretch them with staples or tacks of some sort don't you? - and if it's not a 'gallery wrap' then the sides are what you should be stapling in to; not the back.

I can't see any problem with using a dart/felx-point then bridged with a staple or a special point and screw.
There are also lots of special fitting for large canvases and extending backs for boxs frames which avoid the need to shape plates.

Other methods that will work are the traditional copper Z-pin (see link below)

http://www.framersequipment.co.uk/finis ... oducts.htm

Tap one point of each evenly spaced Z-clip around the frame into the rebate with a flat traditional Belguim style framers hammer (square ended to avoid damage to the rebate) then bend the Z-clip back i) insert the canvas then Instead of bending it down on the top and tapping it in to the back of the stretcher like on a normal bar, these can be inserted into the sides of a high wrapped canvas. These are very easy and quick to use with practice.

An even easier traditional method with practice is to tap panel pins at a Approx 45 degree angle through the top of the stretcher down into the rebate of the frame, when you learn the correct angle you should only see the head of the pin on the back of the stretcher the rest will be hidden in the bar and rebate.

MITREMAN

Did I mention I hate Z-clips? Had too many stuck in my fingers and bashed too many chunks out of frames. And the idea of applying a hammer to a canvas never did appeal. Sorry. Just bitter experience.

As for the toenailing method...... I have spent hours trying to gently persuade canvases out of frames that have been fixed in this way.

No disrespect to Mitreman. Just my pet hates.


Customer has seen the frames and is cool with how they are. If I had used the smaller size bendy plates it would have been a bit neater looking, but didn't have any on the plot and it was a rush job.

Strangely enough..... He brought in one of his new prints when he came over. Mounted on 12mm MDF. Go figure.

Hi Prospero,
Yes these methods do take practice and skill over time, if you don't use the correct hammer yes its easy to knock the frame, I also protect the canvas back with an odd bit of mountboard scrape while fitting

As for pricking fingers yep... been there got the T-shirt, that's why I tip mine into a Muffin tray to avoid putting my hand in a box and getting the och....factor

I found a cooking muffin tray ideal for quickness, has nice deep hole for the every day sundrie , I drilled and screwed mine to a shelve.

As for mounting on MDF, we might as well bring back late 70s and go back to block mounts with beveled black edges and use a textured heatseal film and avoid canvas printing and just print onto a quality paper then use drymount film to mount them.

The one thing about this method is they are strong and easier to transport, but can be heavy

Going back to printed canvas cracking again, if they are heatsealed instead of a coated surface cracking would also be avoided.

So investing in a good heatseal press would help with these problems.

MITREMAN

Hello

For fixing the canvas to the frame Lion do an offset clip in various sizes from 3.2mm to 31mm. I've used them and you can bend them a bit if they are a bit big for your needs.


http://www.lionpic.co.uk/catalog/~/cata ... rt=1&dir=0