The Framers Forum

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the excessively large increases in business rates.

Some businesses in my town have been hit with increases of 100% and for one of them, the increase takes him above the threshold where he can no longer claim the small business rates rebate.

This means that after the three year "transitional rates adjustment period", his rates will have gone up by 100% and a further 100% on top of that. The business is already struggling with a massive reduction in turnover, so this could be the last straw which kills the business.

By the end of the year, we could have a lot of empty shops in our town.

not just your town chum!!

I don't like to say this, well actually I do, mine went down this year, nearly £1000 for the year. It did go up over £1000 last year though, it must be a coinsidence that we had local elections this year, it's never happened before.

David.

Mine dropped by £4 a month.

Still P****ed off as I am still paying £500 per month.

In the past it has been difficult to argue about how much rates you pay - they assess on sq metre-age on different parts - shop floor is one rate (highest) - storage is another, workshops another etc - but there is no published formula for you to check on their sums - you always just had to put up and shut up.

Not so much now though - and if you are not aware of this you're going to like it - a lot.

You can now compare, on-line, how much you pay compared to neighbouring businesses check this out

Pat has just earned us a rebate, back dated to 2005 of at least £2000 a year. She compared our rates to local shops and found that three of us were paying the max (the max for this village) of £200 per sq metre - the rest were under that - the CO-OP was on £141 - and they are larger than us (two fifths to be exact) with a bigger shop floor, one large storage/combined work area out back - plus small loos, office etc. Their rateable value should be way above ours.

So - were they paying too little or were we paying too much? Had to be one or the other.

(This has been going on for some time)

They sent a guy around - a total spotter, with a laser measuring device - he figured we were paying - wait for it - about £150 a year too much!

No way! A tribunal was arranged for May 22 - and this guy seemed very eager to settle before that. He offered us 10% - nope - bugger off - we want to be paying less than the CO-OP - or, if it turns out they are underpaying - fair enough.

He offered us the same as the CO-OP - "you're not listening are you" (words to the effect from Pat)

So - now he's offered us £132 per sq metre - backdated to 2005. We toyed with the idea of going for the tribunal to see how far we could push it - but no, we want the grief about as much as he does. Anyway, that puts us in the small business rate and now we can go for more via the district council - plus, once the dust has settled we'll be asking why only 2005 - I say 'We' - I just make the frames - I don't envy this guy with Pat's teeth sunk in to the matter - she's done so much research that she knows his job about as well as he does!

Along the way he has given us stuff like - "Well they (the CO-OP) may have allowances - their rates may start at the highest, but you are closer to the centre of the village, you might have better access - vehicle/disabled, you might be more visible from the road ......... etc"

Not amused! THEY are closer to the village centre - access is the same for both of us - if anything better for them ..... and what's all this 'might' - that's not bloody good enough TELL US WHY WE ARE PAYING MORE (She shouted - sorry)

Turns out the CO-OP pay an extra £600 per year (whilst still paying less than us) for having air-con!

Anything that enhances is taken in to account.

Check that link and if you think you're getting a raw deal - look further, do some research and once confident push it and don't take any old carp - because they'll give you plenty. Guys like our spotter are there to confuse things - most people, once he's finished his BS say 'Oh - OK then' Make him qualify his BS - in detail - it's your money - pay what you have to and not a penny more.

(Edit - in that link, check out the sq metre value in primary locations - 5 miles down the road from us in Worthing they're paying £800 per sq m in the pedestrian precinct)

Great find Robo - except for one slight problem, that I'm going to have to shut up about, or my life in the village won't be worth living! According to that site, there are only three business in our local postcode area paying business rates! Now I know we're mainly agricultural, but I can think of at least ten other 'companies' working from advertised premises, that aren't on that list....at least the local helicopter owning millionaire IS on the list!

we have just received a letter telling us we have an automatic 100% relief making it Nil payable for 2010/2011.
which was bonus.

I expect they will claw it back, and more with the impending VAT increase, however.

Wow

Thats the difference between a rateable value of £3500 and £11700.

You get 100% relief and I get 1%

it's bizarre isn't it.
But I suppose its because the total area is only about 55 square metres, and its very secondary/fringe location.

We got the forms to accept the new rate yesterday - the guy delivered them by hand - keen to cancel the tribunal - Pat wasn't there and no way was I signing!

Once signed he could cancel this tribunal - but Pat has been doing more research and she refused to sign.

Well, he came around today demanding, in front of customers to go somewhere private to discuss this - one customer thought we'd got the baillfs around or something!

He left with his tail between his legs. As a result of all this, our rateable value has dropped from £17,500 to £12,750 - a huge difference - it's not quite as low as Pat knows it should be (£12,660 or so) but he dropped this afternoon - in increments, it was like haggling at the market - in the end Pat just shut up and glared at him. So - about £12,500 to come back with interest - but that only goes back to 2005.

"You can't claim back before that - there's no records - blah blah blah" He just doesn't learn.

Well, before 2005 we knew we were paying over the odds and we'd asked them to check over and over - they assured us we were paying the correct amount; we had no way of checking then - had to take their word.

They lied to us - simple - and they can bloody well look out now. I don't care if we have to take legal action and it costs us £13,000 to get the other £12,000 back! It's going all the way to the top though - and then maybe we'll have a word with neighbouring shops and businesses that we KNOW are also paying over the odds - I hope we cost this guy his job and the whole kwango (sp) department - this is the sort of thing Cameron wants to step on - so HE'LL be getting a letter pretty pronto.

No records - cobblers - try bank statements for a kick off, you first class expletive deleted!

Their rebate plus a piddling bit of interest won't compensate us for £25,000 that could have been used in the business - a CMC - an extra employee - £25,000's worth of framing materials that we could have turned in to .... what - £80,000? Easy!

I contemplated going on the High St but instead opted to stay in a secondary location and take the adjoining unit to our current premises. If I can convince the council they are separate businesses working from separate premises then I get 100% rebate on both. Even if I don't I still qualify for a rebate of between 50% and 100%.

Roboframer wrote:our rateable value has dropped from £17,500 to £12,750

So - we just got our bill for this year and our rateable value is ......... £14,750.

A two grand increase - yeah, right!

We've clicked on 'appeal' and this time the tribunal will happen, (unless, possibly, they offer us a rate lower than we know it should be) maybe it's just some sort of delaying tactic for the refund that is due - "can't sort that until this issue is dealt with" - sort of thing.

Maybe they think we'll accept anything so's we can get our mits on the nice lump they owe us - well, they're wrong, because what we charge for things has always been based on what we pay for things, and as we know our market can stand that, we've all the time in the world.

It's all crooked!

Our rateable value and consequently the UBR payable dropped this year - not by much, but for the first time in over 20 years I have not been faced with a major increase in rates payable. I am also waiting the outcome of a rates appeal which is being heard later this month, so hopefully there will be a bit of a refund to come too. The other big fall in costs has been our water and sewerage charges. We are a relatively small unit with a high rateable value, so we used to pay high water charges for one tap and one toilet, despite having the water metered. Now they are basing the charges on surface area our charges have dropped by over 75%.

Rent review coming up next, but some preliminary information gathering leads to me think that there will be no rent increase for the forseeable.

I think that one of the reasons we have so many empty shops in the high streets has been the constant milking of businesses by landlords and councils who have seen us as a cash cow without a vote therefore an easy target. Those days have ended, and if they want to see a return to full high streets, a bit of realism is required.

RobinC

Tim,your post probably accounts for the lack of response to my Q on Home working - A nagging doubt . I doubt many home based framers and the bloke in the Village ever bothers - and why should he if he's adding to the tapestry and sustainability of your Village