The Framers Forum

Hi All,

I've never felt 100% happy with any of the backing tapes I've used.

For a long time I used the Kikisui tape sold by Lion as their "K" tape and liked it very much. I was also very pleased when some time ago Lion made it available in the 75mm width too. Then while a couple of customers were late collecting their work one winter and the store room was quite cold, I noticed that the tape was lifting on their work. No other customers had said anything adverse about this and I contacted Lion's framing advisor who basically reasured me that this was unlikely to be the tape and that this was unlikely to be repeated. The following summer I again had the same problem during a very hot period, but only on one customers frame, this time I suspected it might have sometime to do with the finish on the moulding too. However, I never got any clear answer as to what was happening.

I've never much liked the ECO tape, it's just to thin and you can see the moulding and the points through it. So, since the problem was still bothering me in my mind if nothing else, after speaking to Lion I switched to the Tessa "P" tape which works o.k., but it's a lot more expensive, it's not available in the 75mm width (which I find really useful) and I don't think it looks as smart as the Kikisui.

I always use the licky-sticky gummed kraft tape on conservation jobs, which is fine apart from the extra time it takes, but can anyone out there offer any little pearls of wisdom on this topic. Also has anyone ever tried the "Super-tape" variety or the thicker ECO tape now available.

I look forward to seeing what others have found. There may be a lot of varied opinions on this one!
Regards,
Mark

I use gummed paper tape all the time, with one of the dispensers that Lion sells, it is just as quick as self adhesive, better IMHO and afraction of the cost.

The only disadvantages are that it won't stick to waterproof backings and some mouldings need sanding before it will stick to them too.

NYAF - I have had similar problems - burnish the tape down - it seems to be the only way to stop it happening. Lion sell a nice burnishing tool that does the job.

Ditto here with the Gummed Brown paper. its a fraction of the cost of the s/a and always does the job, and looks the business!

The number of frames i see with masking tape makes me cringe, especially when used to mount, never mind to seal the back I have banned it from my workshop !

I would agree that some of the cheaper Kraft tapes dont give a good finish to the frame back - some of the good quality kraft tapes give a finish to the frame back as good as gummed tape - it stays in place regardless of the materials used - finish on frame back - water resistant backing board etc. They cost considerably more than gummed tape so my decision to use them is based upon the quality and consistent adhesion of the more expensive product. I would use gummed tape on all frames if I could rely upon it not underperforming - its basic adhesive properties are very poor when used with modern backing materials.

Like most of you, I have tried the cheaper end of the Kraft tapes. I also use the LIONS ECO tape, but I use the ECO+ which is slightly thicker than the basic version.

I really have had no problem with this tape becoming 'unstuck' over the years and I use the 'Art Bak' waterproof as my backing board. Like Mark though I do burnish it down well.

I have used the gummed tape, but got quite frustrated with it not sticking to the new backing, as it meant soaking the tape to get it off the frame and starting all over again.

Roboframer, you must have a lot of patience, I am not going to start rubbing down the back of the moulding to provide a key. Labour intensive and creates a lot of dust, which because 'Murphy' is always around, ends up inside the glass.

That does not mean that I will not experiment or ask around for advice/information of what other people use, so thankyou for starting this thread.

It's not often I have to sand the back of a frame. Some have a glaze, even gold foil on the back, but not many; most manufacturers take great care not to waste finishes where they can't be seen!

Anyway - I'm going American soon - Tyvec dust cover, waterproof and breathable - looks the biz.

Roboframer
If I am doing frames for the local antiques trade they like to have black dustcover backs - roll of black paper - glue edges - dampen back and when dry you get a flat drumtight cover - looks great but takes considerably more time than taping up. Hope you can give us some feedback on the Tyvec dust cover.

Dermot sent me this link

https://www2.preservationequipment.co.u ... l&pid=4847

It seems quite flimsy, but it is tough, I THINK it is what they use in the States (Tyvek definitely - not sure about weight).

If it IS the same stuff then it seems we can get it a lot cheaper than they can in US.

I'm going to order a roll anyway, if it turns out to be a no-goer, it doesn'y matter - we can/will use it on the craft side (card-making)

(I was going to edit the above spelling of 'doesn't' but will leave it as it is for Scottish people!)

I've never had any problems with the gummed brown tape not staying stuck. This may be due to the fact that I let it stand for a minuite or two while it gets good and sticky. I must admit that I've never used it on plastic mouldings, I just don't like plastic mouldings anyway!
The funny thing with the Kikisui tape not staying stuck is that the initial grap is massive, much more than any other tape I've tried. Somehow it seems logical that it should stay stuck. Unfortunately sometimes it doesn't.
Cheers,
Mark

Tyvek is the same material as sign makers use to make small banner posters that can be used outdoors it is also the same material as builders use as the damp barrier for wooden framed housed …………..it is a though a old boots and you would really have to try hard to stick your fingers through it…..

It creates a very neat and professional finish to the back of the frame and it also acts as a damp barrier if pictures are to hung on North facing outer wall’s

It’s is available from O’Sullivan Graphics off the Naas road in Dublin….

I have most of the last roll (plain white) which I bought I think it was about €150 + VAT……. It’s for sale €65.00 + Interlink charge of €24.75 or you can collect

Tyvek 1073D 75g/M2 1295mm wide 50m long (I used about 6 meters off this roll)

Rgs

Dermot

Dermot@matting-systems.com

I guess we all have our preference for different tapes or methods of finishing the back of a frame. Whatever method we use it should look neat, tidy and professional.

I must say that I am a little puzzled by comments that any one type of tape is "cheaper" or a "fraction of the cost" which implies that that is a reason to use it.
Firstly, the tiny amount used on the back of a frame only amounts to a few cents anyway. How much money would you save annually? Not much, I wouldn't think.
Secondly, shouldn't we base our decison on what we feel is "best" rather than what costs less???
Thirdly, whatever we use, it should be factored into the price we charge for the finished frame.

Personally, I don't like gummed tape, because it is messy, involves having water around the workbench, and as someone said, it doesn't stick to everything so you have to spend extra time sanding the frame to make it stick. Not for me thanks, but as I said we all have our own preferences.

We are talking about stuff that is next to the wall and nowhere near the artwork (although we all know that a lot of framers use the same stuff to hinge artwork that they do to seal frames)

Gummed paper tape (GPT) breathes, self adhesive (SA) does not.

GPT can be moulded into a rebate SA cannot, once contact is made - FINITO, in fact SA, in deep rebated frames, can leave a gap between frame backing & moulding, a gap that can be easily pierced to allow dust and insects in. Not all framers make deep-rebated frames flush to prevent this gap.

There are pros and there are cons, but for me the pros of GPT far outweigh the cons AND it is cheaper. I'd still use it were it not.

The simple fact is that SA is convenient, but a dispenser makes GPT just as convenient - make that MORE convenient - it's 4 times longer!

Another simple fact is that if you can buy something for 'a fraction of the cost' that you use constantly, never mind 'cost per frame' the savings, over time, are worthwile.

NO expense is spared here on what comes into contact with artwork and my backs look as good as anyone's using SA and they perform better.

I'm sticking breathable stuff to artcare foamboard, it's not messy if you have a dispenser - the only problem I have ever had with liquids is when I have accidentaly knocked my glass cleaner aerosol can over..........

And sneezing.............

And coffee

And leaks in the roof

And woodstain

And..............................

Roboframer wrote:I use gummed paper tape all the time, with one of the dispensers that Lion sells, it is just as quick as self adhesive, better IMHO and afraction of the cost.

The only disadvantages are that it won't stick to waterproof backings and some mouldings need sanding before it will stick to them too.

Hi john,

I must admit that I did not particularly consider the gummed tape alternative for the more general type jobs. After reading your obviously satisfied comments with no mention of excessive time to do the job, I'm now giving a dispenser some serious thought. I've never actually considered getting one of these gummed tape dispensers before, perhaps I should. I've just had a closer look at both types in the Lion catalogue, I think the expensive one is too much, but the cheaper might be worth trying. Maybe you could tell me and others are they fairly trouble free, or do they get gummed-up and messy? How much time do they save in use.
Thanks,
Mark

Roboframer wrote:

GPT can be moulded into a rebate SA cannot, once contact is made - FINITO

This isn't stickly true! I find that with a combination of Lion's Tesa 'P' Tape, ArtBak's waterproofing allows you to reposition the tape even if it does come in contact with the backing. Using a burnishing bone you can get a very tight seal between the rebate and the backing boad before finishing the job.

The main reason I've switched from GPT to Tesa 'P' Tape is to make other framer's jobs easier! IF a client should take one of my frames to have another picture put into the frame, I would know for a fact that when you turn the frame over you would smile knowing you wouldn't have to spend the next hour soaking and scraping - I know I do

I have to agree with Coxby here.
Even using LIONS ECO + tape and a burnishing tool, on ARTCOR waterproof, I have no problem at all in forming the tape into the rebate.

Plus, it is so easy to remove with the aid of a heat gun. No mess. No water.

my gummed tapes stopped breathing!

Hi,

Gummed tape onto plastic coated mouldings: simply apply some PVA, let it dry and apply gummed tape as usual, works a treat, and there is no dust from sanding......
As for Lions' gummed tape dispenser....for many years we have been using a pyrex lid, a wet sponge, same thing, and we change the sponge about once a month.
I have found over the years that self adhesive tapes dont last on the back of mouldings, the longer you leave them adhered to the moulding, the harder they are to remove cleanly, thats if they havent already dried up and fallen off! Always gummed tape for me.

Steven

Roboframer wrote:I use gummed paper tape all the time, with one of the dispensers that Lion sells, it is just as quick as self adhesive, better IMHO and afraction of the cost.

I eventually got round to buying the above tape dispenser and I am now a firm convert. Previously I had always wet the tape by hand, which was both slow and messy. I would now say that gummed paper tape is now equally as convenient as self adhesive. My thanks to John.
Cheers,
Mark