Turned my First Ever Job Down Today

[Dave]

A bloke walks into a framers and asks for a rough price for a gold, plain (read cheap) frame, photo, in a mount, glass, backing board, fittings roughly 700 x 1000. Bloke behind the counter gives him a rough estimate feeling the water. Customer nearly faints, says "I've been quoted £30 - £35 where I come from". Bloke behind counter suggests very politely that if he can get the job done properly for that price he should snap the other framers hand off.

God it felt good, never turned a job away before, but come on, there has to be limits, doesn't there???????

Dave

[Grahame Case]

does he come from IKEA?

70x100 is an Ikea size.

i would have responded the same personally.

[Bagpuss]

On a similar subject, on my advertising I tell people they can ring for a free quote over the phone. Since I've been running it ( for the last few months ), I can honestly say that for anyone who rings and quotes the size of a frame and what type of thing they want, they NEVER call back. It's either my prices are too high or they are just "tyre kickers" Does anyone experience the same thing ? Perhaps I need to work on my sales banter ....

Adam/Bagpuss

[Gesso&Bole]

Adam
That's one of the things I will be covering in my seminar at the Lion event. Hopefully between us we can increase the hit rate for you!!

[The Jolly Good Framer #1]

One of the following things is going on here....
1.The bloke is lying in an attempt to get you to lower your price
2.The price he got is genuine but for a considerably inferior job
3.The price he got is genuine and the framer he got it from will be out of business soon as he’s not making any money.

[Roboframer]

This was your first ever job, and you turned it down?

You didn't actually turn the job down - to turn down (refuse) a job, you have to be given/offered it in the first place.

What you did was lose - or rather, fail to win ..... a job, which is no problem - it happens all the time.

Mrs R said this to a customer once ('customer' is the wrong word but still) "We're obviously not good enough for you, now take your stuff and gerrouta my shop" (She'd been watching Eastenders - used to live there actually)

THAT'S turning a job down!

[JamesC]

Absolutely has to be limits or you'll be a busy fool.

The guy didn't have it framed where he came from so I would suggest that probably means there is more to it and I agree with other posts generally.

I mainly sell online and small quality contracts but do get increasing numbers of local customers visiting my unit. For a while I wasn't very well prepared and had to dash off to my PC for a price. I think it may help you if you don't "feel the water" but have a quick computer spreadsheet or pricing software at the POS where you can get an instant broken down price. He then knows you would be charging the same to any other customer and doesn't think you've tried to guess how much he will pay or anything like that. You can then knock him actual physical bits off to get the price down e.g. hangers, backers, mounts, tapes, drymounting etc. People are much more reluctant to take things off than they are to pay for extras so it's a good way round to do it and gives you a chance to sell your quality/extras. If you want you can think about giving a small discount e.g. "as you are a new customer and local I'll try to help you out if I can do it when I'm quiet".

I've bought some pricing software for this reason I just need to get all my prices enterred. My only challenge is my website forces me to price things in a different and specific way so I risk some inconsistent pricing but if customers bother to look I'll just explain they are free to buy either option and personal service tends to carry a small premium.

From experience he's probably told the other framer that it's about 60 x 40cm, asked for the most basic job i.e. no mount and plastic frame, asked for a price for 5 with the intention of buying one at the same price, and forgot to tell you that VAT was on top (maybe because the framer forgot to mention it).

There's a decent chance he'll be back if you aren't rude but make a good honest case for your quality.

[philipsheldon]

Afternoon.

Everyone's at it, aren't they ? I'm sure that anyone selling anything will be faced with this problem daily. You can see the argument of this from both perspectives - the seller & the buyer.

The thing is though, if you are looking to buy something, a new TV, a holiday, a car - ANYTHING - do you adopt the same approach as indicated in the orginal tale ? As in, "...they do it to me, so I'll do it to them ! " ?

The next time you book a hoilday, will you press the person you deal with to get you the " best deal " with the threat of walking away if they don't come up with the price you want ?

That BBC guy, Dominic Littlewood, said on a BBC TV show recently that people need to " ask " more & not be afraid of bartering or walking away. I think this was on the ONE Show.

It doesn't help us, in this trade, does it.

As for a holiday, well...I want to book one soon. I think I know what angle I'll take

Phil.

[Steve N]

You always get one telling you that you're too expensive, and if you do, then your prices are about right, it's when you don't have people telling you, that's when you need to worry, because your are probably too cheap. I have a box in the shop where I put a lot of my mountcard cutouts in, with a notice saying FREE help yourself, most people take one or two bits, had this woman come in, went straight to the box, got a handful out, came to the counter with a print around 10"x8" and asked for a price, gave her one "You are far too expensive" and walks out with the handful of card , I've changed the sign now to Free to customers

Steve

[Dave]

Hi Prospero,

Sorry bad choice of expression. Not my first job, I've been going about four years now, still a long way to go I know. Yep you're right, I didn't achieve the sale, but every now and again you have to remind yourself who you work for and sometimes it's just not worth the steam.

Cheers

[markw]

You have to have confidence in your pricing as you will always get chancers who will try it on. Your sales pitch is important - but you will rarely convert this sort of enquiry into a sale. I have a small range of ready mades that can often just fill that "mean" gap. Like Ikea they walk out with a frame - they have to do the rest. Its surprising how many come back and ask me to fit it in the frame properly.

[theimagebox]

I have to agree with most of the comments here. I used to take almost any job I could get even if meant margins where very low just to get the sale.

You soon realise that there is no point been a busy fool as mentioned earlier.

[Bagpuss]

Adam
That's one of the things I will be covering in my seminar at the Lion event. Hopefully between us we can increase the hit rate for you!!

That's excellent news I'll look forward to your seminar, I'll be the one sitting at the front scribbling in my notebook !

cheers,
Adam/Bagpuss

[Roboframer]

Hi Prospero,

Sorry bad choice of expression. Not my first job, I've been going about four years now, still a long way to go I know. Yep you're right, I didn't achieve the sale, but every now and again you have to remind yourself who you work for and sometimes it's just not worth the steam.

That Prospero geezer - don't pay any attention, he's just a stirrer.

[prospero]

Waddid I say? I never said a word. Honest. I'm just sitting in a corner eating my soup.

[Dave]

Balls,

if you mess up do it right. Sorry Prospero, got you mixed up with Roboframer, enjoy the soup.

Dave

[RobinC]

That Dom Littlewood gets on my paps!

A few years ago he fronted Don't get Done, Get Dom where he went round mainly independamt high street shops showing the viewers how to ask for discount. We had a speight of customers, mainly retired people who watch daytime TV, asking for discount "because Dom tells us to". I emailed the programme asking if he could negotiate a discount off my TV license fee. I have noticed that now we have had loads of shops close down he has changed tack a bit on the programmes he fronts!

[ken.b]

Hi Dave,

I have a small framing set up in Wales when people ask me how much can I knock off I usually reply "It depends how many you want" and we negotiate from there.

[Johnson_M]

We turn down work all the time!! If a job can't be done to the sort of standards we'd like then we'd rather not make the sale than send out an inferior framing job.

Had a guy come in last week with a 6ft x 4ft antique flag from an RAF base that he wanted sandwiching between two pieces of acrylic (no frame just those corner studs in each corner), explained how the perspex would bow, we weren't allowed to use anything to hold this (rather thick) flag in place which would mean it would wrinkle and not look very well done - at first he was a bit offish with me but once i'd explained all the problems we'd have trying to get what he wanted done I think he understood that I knew what I was talking about.

Anyway he came back in yesterday and is now having it framed in a nice big box frame...Result!

Sometimes it pays to turn jobs away!

[Not your average framer]

When you are just starting and waiting for business to build up, it can make sense to give a sensible discount, because you probably need the business. In time as your business grows, you won't be all that bothered if a few of them walk, because you won't give them a discount.

I expect to lose some jobs, because I price towards the better end of the market, but the jobs which I do get at a proper price mean that I am better off than I would be by pricing lower and getting more work than I can cope with.

My advice is to always do every job to the best standard and price your work accordingly. Good customers always appreciate quality and workmanship.